Can you coach a child to show autistic behavior's

[wonderings2]

This sounds bonkers and I'm probably going to get ripped to shreds but here goes...

My sister is convinced her 3 yo DD is autistic, the problem is she's the only one that does. In reaction to numerous people pointing out that they don't see the child showing any autistic behavior's she almost seems to be encouraging the child to behave in a certain way...

There are so many examples but a few:

She attends nursery 5 days a week for 10 hours a day, she has asked them for a SEN assessment but they refused as they have said she isn't showing any neurodiverse behavior's and they have no concerns regarding her development, but said if there are any specific adaptions she would like they would look into it, she asked for a tent /den that the child can go into when she overwhelmed that the other children know they cant go into, they put this in place but pointed out 2 months later that the child never uses it.

She has taught the child to shout "space" and (fairly gently) push a person /child away if she feels they are too close to her, the problem is no-one has actually seen he child do this unless her mum prompts her, so for example we were at a park and sister was fretting as another child was playing to close to her, so she got her attention and did the movement prompting the child to shout "space" and push the other child away. They were both happily playing before that but understandably the other child moved away.

She hovers over her playing and told another child off for climbing up the slide her DD was trying to slide down as "DD is autistic and doesn't understand when other children don't do things the right way, it could upset her and cause a melt down"

She claims the child has fixations on certain foods, toys tv shows etc but no-one else see's these, theres a never a photo (we share loads of photos) and you don't hear the child talk about it.

She doesn't include the child in activities like trick or treating and seeing Santa as it will overstimulate her then rants on social media about her being left out? Other family members take the child for the day and she copes fine.

Sisters husband was getting so concerned that he mentioned it to our mum, his Dad (a retired school teacher) and friends and they all said they didn't believe the child was currently showing any autistic behavior's. She reacted very badly to this, said a mum knows her child best and that we are all denial, the child only shows autistic traits around her because she feels safe with her and is masking all other times.

Interestingly she isn't pursuing a diagnosis as she is claiming the nursery agree with her (they don't) and when the child starts school next year they can provide support without needing a diagnosis??

Is your BIL in the picture at all? If so, what does he think?

This is very concerning behaviour on your Sister's part - are you sure she's ok?

I think people overly look for signs of Autism these days. I think it’s been caused by a lot of celebrities being diagnosed with it, it feels like the new bipolar where at one point in time every other person said they were bipolar. It has the effect of watering it down for the people who truly have it. On the other hand, If the child has it then it will be picked up by the school at some point. I would avoid saying the child is not autistic as that might make your sister feel like you are gaslighting her and double down on her belief. Nobody can say the child has or hasn’t got it unless they are a trained to diagnose it. Also bare in mind your sister might be correct.

I don’t really know what to say that will be helpful.
I am a childminder. It’s fairly clear to people who have worked with neurodiverse children what to look out for, what little traits/stares/actions are indicating something being there.
If the nursery say there are no concerns, and you seems fairly sure yourself, then perhaps your sister is passing her feelings and her anxieties on to her child. Could your sister have autism?
Equally could you be wrong. Parents do know their children the best, and children do masks their behaviours, although in my experience they tend to be slightly older. Either way your sister sounds like she needs support

You can get a diagnoses before starting school, a HV or qualified person would watch and observe then refer if needed. Attending a nursery means they can have someone come in to observe. They will also write up their observations on the child for the school. Without a diagnoses/notes from the nursery regarding behaviours which warrant additional support the child will not have it.

Though of course parents concerns raised will be listened to and supported by the school

Perhaps try a different angle - your DC is very young and seems really smart and capable. They may have autistic traits but without diagnoses it's not yet known if they are/aren't. It may be worth not telling other parents and children that they are autistic as they may want the right to disclose or not when they are older, and they are going to know those children for many years.

Some parents with diagnosed children never tell the parents or other children the entire duration of school as they may want their child to deal with their autism as they see fit when they are older.

That may just mean that it calms down in public?

The first thought that came to mind is munchausen syndrome by proxy. Hope it's not this but I'd be quite worried why she's acting this way.

That's exactly what I was thinking too

How worrying. It sounds exactly like she’s trying to coach her daughter. Could BIL discuss this with their HV or GP? Worries about his wife I mean not their DC.

This. Your sister’s behaviour is quite concerning as it is likely to damage the child’s normal development.

Same. Weird.

This is what I'm thinking but wasnt brave enough to say...

She has health anxiety herself and is a regular the doctors surgery and this has seemed to continue with the child. She has also been sure that the child had sight issues which a trip to the optitions disproved and then hearing issues which resulted in a referral to audiology which obviously showed she had perfect hearing.

Most recently she was convinced the child had a UTI as she'd had an accident (shes was still potty training) and felt a bit warm, took a trip to the doctor and some how managed to get them to prescribe antibiotics even though the water test came back clear and she didn't have a temperature.

Autism in girls does often go unnoticed for years though.

Yes, she is married, he is worried - he disagrees with her but she gets very defensive when he points out that the child manages fine when shes with him.

I dont think she okay, I think shes struggling and unhappy with some parts of her life but she is very unwilling to talk about it.

On the other hand, maybe she completely believes that her child is ND or is ill. In which case she would need help with her mental health. An intervention is needed.

Believe the mother. Support her, she knows her child

I instantly thought munchhausen by proxy too, and your update provides more to suggest this - visiting as many healthcare professionals as she can in the hope that something will stick, presumably using emotive language to get what she wants- poor little child

Think you’re jumping the gun a bit dramatically - health anxiety is something a couple of my ND family suffer with, coincidentally, and guess what? They’re over cautious with their kids too over their health, and many other areas.

plus nurseries and schools don’t always know, I’ve got two nhs diagnosed children and schools in particular are creaking and teachers (nursery or school) are not autism experts.

neither do family - if I (and many other parents ets of autistic kids) had a pound for the amount of times we’d been fobbed off by ‘well meaning’ family….

support, don’t judge. It’ll be a lot clearer over time.

As a parent of two diagnosed ND children, if I had a quid for every time someone told me they weren't autistic when they were younger (including teachers and schools, who ime are largely clueless about what asd actually looks like) I'd be rich.

And me. Very worrying.

I have health anxiety, and when my son is unwell, I do normally jump to the worst conclusion - however, I'm SO relieved when it turns out to be OK. I would never pursue treatment when he doesn't need it - I'm just overjoyed to have it resolved.

Saying this because I agree with other posters in the Munchausens By Proxy warning signs. It's very concerning behaviour.

I suppose if you think about it, playing a condition like autism is great to scratch that attention itch - because they get the attention without physically harming their child (how MBP sadly normally plays out).

I'd keep a very close eye on the child and make sure she doesn't start getting 'sick' in other ways. Perhaps the Mum needs some extra mental health support herself? That would be all I could suggest.

I presume the dad is doing a lot less childcare, at weekends and times when the kid is more relaxed? I would really have to go a long way not to take the input of the primary caregiver most seriously.

I was accused of this - I don’t have it. So many so called professionals saying ‘he’s fine at school’ or ‘he LOOKS fine’ and then a whole load of other made up stuff. Refusing assessments and we had to go private and then apparently that was us ‘doctor shopping’ and ‘buying a diagnosis’

Had a huge fight over it all. We now home educate and he gets high rate dla for both components but in the SEN community there are a LOT of parents accused of this. Seems it’s cheaper to accuse a parent of FII than to support / pay for support

Yes it does happen. My friends step son was turned into a wreck by his own mother, the ex wife. She coached him, made him neurotic. He's a fucked up adult now.

Yes it definitely could be Munchausens. I met someone who had a teenager like this who was not in school since age 7 and very isolated, though it was clear the teen was very normal.

Not sure there's anything you can do

Yes, same here.

My DD was recently diagnosed at 18 after years of being told nothing was wrong, she’s fine at school, it was just anxiety, she’s young for her age, etc, etc. plus the classic “mum seems anxious”.

It does sound worrying, but at the same time autism in girls does get missed all the time.

@Parentblame My child has DS and autism so I do know a thing about the sen community and just how hard it can be to get a diagnosis. I believe I'm ND myself. This comes across differently though, and I'd be very worried if this was missed.