Can you coach a child to show autistic behavior's

[wonderings2]

This sounds bonkers and I'm probably going to get ripped to shreds but here goes...

My sister is convinced her 3 yo DD is autistic, the problem is she's the only one that does. In reaction to numerous people pointing out that they don't see the child showing any autistic behavior's she almost seems to be encouraging the child to behave in a certain way...

There are so many examples but a few:

She attends nursery 5 days a week for 10 hours a day, she has asked them for a SEN assessment but they refused as they have said she isn't showing any neurodiverse behavior's and they have no concerns regarding her development, but said if there are any specific adaptions she would like they would look into it, she asked for a tent /den that the child can go into when she overwhelmed that the other children know they cant go into, they put this in place but pointed out 2 months later that the child never uses it.

She has taught the child to shout "space" and (fairly gently) push a person /child away if she feels they are too close to her, the problem is no-one has actually seen he child do this unless her mum prompts her, so for example we were at a park and sister was fretting as another child was playing to close to her, so she got her attention and did the movement prompting the child to shout "space" and push the other child away. They were both happily playing before that but understandably the other child moved away.

She hovers over her playing and told another child off for climbing up the slide her DD was trying to slide down as "DD is autistic and doesn't understand when other children don't do things the right way, it could upset her and cause a melt down"

She claims the child has fixations on certain foods, toys tv shows etc but no-one else see's these, theres a never a photo (we share loads of photos) and you don't hear the child talk about it.

She doesn't include the child in activities like trick or treating and seeing Santa as it will overstimulate her then rants on social media about her being left out? Other family members take the child for the day and she copes fine.

Sisters husband was getting so concerned that he mentioned it to our mum, his Dad (a retired school teacher) and friends and they all said they didn't believe the child was currently showing any autistic behavior's. She reacted very badly to this, said a mum knows her child best and that we are all denial, the child only shows autistic traits around her because she feels safe with her and is masking all other times.

Interestingly she isn't pursuing a diagnosis as she is claiming the nursery agree with her (they don't) and when the child starts school next year they can provide support without needing a diagnosis??

We have a recently diagnosed DC with autism and adhd and are constantly being questioned by other people about their diagnosis. Even now with the team of professionals who made the diagnosis in agreement with us, It is clear that many of our friends and family don't believe us or think we have pushed this label upon our DC.
I'm not saying this is the case in the situation you describe but I'd be very wary of judging and questioning a parent on this.

@Soontobe60

It really depends on how you view masking.
If you view masking as a strategic and deliberate act then I can see why you feel this isn't possible.

But I see masking as a shield of protection,.as a learnt behaviour, as a coping strategy, as a way to control a situation.

A puppy learns very quickly how to sit through use of treats and no treat if they don't.
A 3 year old learns to sit cross legged on a mat and get praise, don't sit cross legged, fidget, make noise means no praise.

We literally train children to comply with social expectations from a very early age.

My child will literally become different characters seen in TV to cope with situations she is uncomfortable. mimics every mannerisms and speech tone.
But this comes at a cost to the child and usually me who get the burnt of the later meltdown.

I have seen this mask remain in place for days when necessary.

If a child has a secure home/attachment to caregiver it’s entirely normal to tantrum at home rather than in daycare, with grandparents etc.

She attends nursery 5 days a week for 10 hours a day,

This really stood out for me. So your SIL only really spends time with her DD when she is just getting up or when she is tired after a long and busy day ? And at the weekend when their normal routine is out of kilter ?

@Spendonsend
yes, medical appointments relating to ASD eg, SALT, incontinence services, hearing, OT etc.

but mostly the attention for the education services.

or, and I have seen it, the financial gains ie, motability car, extra benefits, etc etc

You've seen people pretend their kids are disabled to get a couple hundred a month? That's even if you get it granted!

And appointments... What appointments?! My non verbal 5 year old gets a couple hours a year!

I can't possibly believe anyone would pursue this route it's absolutely a relentless fight for support

@Serena1977
We get DLA but it doesn't cover the loss of earnings due to difficulty holding down work with the meetings at school, the morning school anxiety causing so many morning problems, the number of medical appointments. The money we have spent on things in the hope they will help, reduce child anxiety. The times we have paid for activities or events that we haven't made it to or we have had to leave or that child attends a couple of times but then can't cope with

Surely there is a difference between unconscious masking, which a three year old would very much do, and conscious masking which would come only with a more advanced age and more advanced social awareness.

Some posts on this thread are horrible. FII is just a modern day witch hunt. Parents are the experts in their own children yet rather than believe and support it seems the majority just want to discredit and accuse them of something so incredibly rare - this then leads to ND children missing out on support and families put through hell and under suspicion of abuse ?
It’s extremely difficult to get dla - it’s not just a case of they take your word for it and pay! It’s really not the motivation to fake ASD that so many people think it is 🤦‍♀️

A free car? Fantastic - where do I go and can I have two cars since I hit the lottery and got two ND DC's?

@Boilingover24 My DD (diagnosed ASD aged 5) absolutely masked at pre-school when she was 3 and 4 years old.

I kept a journal at the time and I described her as acting like an "automaton" as soon as she crossed the threshold into the building and hung her coat up.

Even once she was diagnosed she flew under the radar and didn't get accommodations and reasonable adjustments she should have at school because she masked so well.

I know a child who's mum is absolutely putting her health anxieties on her. Mum says she is bipolar (no diagnosis and doctors say she isn't) child has been convinced she has bipolar, has adhd, has anxiety. Child is 13 and doesn't attend school because of all her problems. She knows all about the medications she should be taking and mum gets her a 'prescription' (buys stuff over the counter) that she tries to dose her up on and 'shared' her bipolar meds (also not actual prescription) with her. Social services are involved. It's very sad.

SleepingStandingUp

How ridiculous. You aren’t qualified to say that.
Nobody listened to me. Fast forward to her teens years and my dd now has 4 diagnosis including autism pursued and given by nhs professionals.

I was right.

As a parent of two diagnosed ND children, if I had a quid for every time someone told me they weren't autistic when they were younger (including teachers and schools, who ime are largely clueless about what asd actually looks like) I'd be rich.

Same! I could have been your sister. But I was right - my son is neurodiverse! Taken years of hearing people telling me it's all in my head to actually have that confirmed though 🙄

A friend's sister faked cancer while we were at uni.

In terms of asd
No nursery and schools dont know/cant tell nor do some care particularly, easier to blame parents
Ckassic asd with stims and in own world speech delay etc etc might be relatively easily spotted.
Kids with great early speech, seemkng to play with others (but maybe not beong invited to things), struggling with clubs but not every time. Occassional issues at nursery then school are trickier.

There are kids who you are told have diagnoses and you literally cant see it. Because the child doesnt stim, is actually socially popular, capable of going out for a day locally with no issues. Seems their age not immature. It seems the parents present the case but the nhs doesnt spend much time with the child.

Its also true that dads are much less likely to notice or worry about development.
Im sure dp thought i was wrong about dd. Really she presented as very difficult baby and toddler, very naughty. Always trying to trick us. But.. We had to tske her back out of nursery at 14m as she wouldnt settle but also they were useless and she was not behaving as the other kids. With lack of 1-2-1 supervision perhaps she wouldnt have survived even. Went back at 3 and nursery still not great but dd had calmed a little, still issues though. School issues after first few weeks. Possibly sensory as just too many kids wandering about. And little supervision. I would sat a big clue is that dd has never been liked by a nursery teacher or school teacher. Very PDA. She does not mask. However on some environments the distraction is enough - until tired etc. Once she was crying with ear pain at gp waiting room. We went in and she was chatting away.

But dc2 does i think mask. Its not intentional - she cares what others think.- To an extent. She is more coke bottle and pops when coming out. She behaves and is loved by teachers. But wider family who see her more see some of the behaviours.
She has and has always had some sensory issues.

However im not convinced entirely of so many kids masking effectively and that they can behave socially with no issues - if you are properly observing.
They would maybe avoid wanting to meet up with friends, if a friend comes over maybe lose interest after a few hours and start playing by themself. Care more about what they want to do than a group.
Also it maybe for some kkds there arent as many triggers at nursery. If a trigger is queuing or supermarkets. But more triggers if it is noise etc. Or that chikd might choose to sit and 'read' etc.
One of the things some kids do is mpnot greeting people but that might not be noticed in a nursery/school.

My ds was started on the diagnostic pathway (nhs) at 20 months old. By the time he was 4, he had had multiple appointments (SALT, OT, multiple paediatricians appointments), and had received his diagnosis before his 4th birthday. And he is not a severe, clear cut case (in fact, I was expecting him to be signed off from services at each and every appointment along the way, because his presentation was so subtle, and he masked so well). All on the nhs.

dd1 was referred at 17 months, and diagnosed by 2 1/2, again all on the nhs, and again via multiple appointments across multiple services.

you clearly know nothing at all about either masking, or the nhs diagnostic pathways.

@Serena1977

but mostly the attention for the education services.

What education services? It's extremely difficult to get support for asd in schools. Harder than getting dla, a free car and a bunch of benefits 🙄

The mother's behaviour sounds intense and hyper sensitive. Is she like that in other areas of life?

At 3, my autistic son did demonstrate different behaviours at nursery and home. I remember the day I picked him up and he'd had his first ever "tantrum" and his nursery worker who'd known him since he was a baby was astonished... I was also astonished because he never stopped at home. He was on their radar for SALT and worked with the SALT programme to join up and fill the gaps in his speech patterns. He did side-by-side play, but didn't make a friend until he was 6. He'd crash out exhausted in the book corner until he started school. At school, that switched to explosive fizzy bottle mode and it was the intensity of that at 7 that triggered me into investigations/ diagnosis as he hadn't outgrown some more toddlery behaviour.

If you know what you're looking at, there is constant traits of autism. In y6, despite his diagnosis, his teacher was still blind to it. Ironically one star of the week award singing his praises were all actually the positive traits he has such as his hyperfocus in science.

Children can mask their difficulties, but normally the socially acceptible traits are visible if you know what you're looking at. Girls' interests tend to be more "normal" and less clichéd than boys', but the intensity will be there and hard to hide at a young age.

Since having my doubts about DS's development, and while I wasn't sure what was going on, there was always something niggling, I have become more aware of traits in others and when people have a great stonking collection of them, and there have been times that eventually something has triggered questioning whether autism is involved, and I had had suspicions for years before it hit their radar. There was also stuff that I missed in DS such as he'll make eye contact (or plausibly close to it) with me and select "safe people" but will often focus on the safest person present when talking to unknown people. It was pointed out at the assessment and I haven't unseen it since.

I don't think you can train a child to "act autistic". Anxious behaviour can rub off on to children, and anxiety can often be a consequence of autism. It is normal for children to change the way they present in different company/ situations, but it will emerge in one way or another.

Whatever is going on, the mother is handling it oddly. I'd suggest finding out more about autism and seeing if there is anything subtle you've been missing, and keep observing and an open mind. There are several different things that could be going on.

You can't pretend to be severely autistic
My son has severe autism and learning disabilities he needs 1:1 care at all times he's non verbal a a special school ,extremely challenging behavior etc etc ,its not something that can be faked.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/munchausen-by-proxy

To get a mobility car for autism A child would either also have to have severe mental impairment or be virtually unable to walk autism.is a huge spectrum even with a diagnosis some people would not meet the threshold for any rate of DLA and most will never meet the threshold for high rate mobility.

My son gets the highest rates of DLAand we get the "free " car
He's 13 non verbal, at a special school.for children with severe and profound learning disabilities
Working a pre school.levels
Needs 1:1 support at all times
Extremely challenging behaviour
He can't fake that!!!

How can you pretend your child has severe autism?

My son has reports compiled by countless professionals, requires constant 1:1 care all day and night and can't function in mainstream. It's not just a case of writing a few notes. There is no way you could have evidence to convince dla to provide high rate if it wasn't needed.

My son would be called severe, at every step the local authority try to reduce his support and we have to get legal aid. It's exhausting. No one would choose to do this.

Well exactly I had to go to tribunal to get HRC and HRM for my son in spite of the huge amount of evidence that he's severely autistic and in a special school and can't speak at all,the idea it can some how be faked is laughable.

Hi OP@wonderings2 this is ringing alarms for me for Munchausens by proxy…I’ve worked with adults with munchausens and have read case histories of those who create or project illnesses onto their kids and there’s a flavour of that going by your posts but obv none of us can say. Coming from a ND family I know neuro diversity doesn’t always jump out at people til later on.