Can you coach a child to show autistic behavior's

[wonderings2]

This sounds bonkers and I'm probably going to get ripped to shreds but here goes...

My sister is convinced her 3 yo DD is autistic, the problem is she's the only one that does. In reaction to numerous people pointing out that they don't see the child showing any autistic behavior's she almost seems to be encouraging the child to behave in a certain way...

There are so many examples but a few:

She attends nursery 5 days a week for 10 hours a day, she has asked them for a SEN assessment but they refused as they have said she isn't showing any neurodiverse behavior's and they have no concerns regarding her development, but said if there are any specific adaptions she would like they would look into it, she asked for a tent /den that the child can go into when she overwhelmed that the other children know they cant go into, they put this in place but pointed out 2 months later that the child never uses it.

She has taught the child to shout "space" and (fairly gently) push a person /child away if she feels they are too close to her, the problem is no-one has actually seen he child do this unless her mum prompts her, so for example we were at a park and sister was fretting as another child was playing to close to her, so she got her attention and did the movement prompting the child to shout "space" and push the other child away. They were both happily playing before that but understandably the other child moved away.

She hovers over her playing and told another child off for climbing up the slide her DD was trying to slide down as "DD is autistic and doesn't understand when other children don't do things the right way, it could upset her and cause a melt down"

She claims the child has fixations on certain foods, toys tv shows etc but no-one else see's these, theres a never a photo (we share loads of photos) and you don't hear the child talk about it.

She doesn't include the child in activities like trick or treating and seeing Santa as it will overstimulate her then rants on social media about her being left out? Other family members take the child for the day and she copes fine.

Sisters husband was getting so concerned that he mentioned it to our mum, his Dad (a retired school teacher) and friends and they all said they didn't believe the child was currently showing any autistic behavior's. She reacted very badly to this, said a mum knows her child best and that we are all denial, the child only shows autistic traits around her because she feels safe with her and is masking all other times.

Interestingly she isn't pursuing a diagnosis as she is claiming the nursery agree with her (they don't) and when the child starts school next year they can provide support without needing a diagnosis??

An interesting article about asd today from Judy Eaton www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/ask-yourself-could-person-be-autistic

It’s also already been said but spending SUCH a long time in nursery 5 days a week would be overwhelming for any child never mind a neuro diverse one, so these behaviours at home may be just reflecting the reaction of their child to the situation. Both my neuro diverse child and my neuro typical child would have meltdowns at the end of the school day and need their own space as they are both introverts.

I think people have lost track of OP's posts about what her sister actually does.

Her child approaches other children to play and is perfectly happy. Yet her mother shouts "space!" as if the her DD was distressed or the approach had come from the other child and was unwanted. That is not the mother of a yet undiagnosed child behaving rationally. Likewise the other behaviours on the mother's part appear to come from nowhere and are unwarranted.

I could have predicted that this thread would turn into one about mumsnetters who weren't believed by family members, and I recognise how painful that is.
But just as there are mothers who should be believed, there are also some that shouldn't (and some fathers who should). Because ultimately it's the child who matters, and this behaviour in her mother's part is damaging to her.

Op hasn’t been there at all the child’s interactions like the mother has. She is her aunt not her mother. It is hugely anxiety provoking if your child has reacted to other children invading space in the past so quite understandable if a mother wishes to preempt and stop difficult interactions from happening.

Exactly. She may be seeing subtle signs of her child being overstimulated or overwhelmed that others would miss and she wants to pre empt and avoid a reaction.

The child may also be responding to an over anxious mother who only sees her child either at the end of a tiring day or weekend…the child’s behaviours may reflect the child’s emotional state. I had an anxious ,over bearing mother who I was from a young age actively distancing myself. I am likewise can be an anxious person and I can both see and understand my daughters need to distance herself at times when I am not managing my own anxiety appropriately .It’s the husband/ father who needs to be stepping up.

To put this into perspective- ASD is more common than FII

Therefore the most likely cause should be assumed firstly and the less likely cause considered later - if further assessment doesn’t match up with what the mother describes.

To jump in alleging FII is wrong.

Not RTFT but there is a strong genetic component… I would look to that first rather than assuming supposedly NT children have ‘learned’ traits from their ND parents

There's a very real danger in assuming the most likely thing. And I'm sure there will be a lot of threads in mumsnet history where people have had a real problem with misdiagnosis because of lazy doctors.

There's also a danger in projecting one's own experience onto a very different one. OP came here for help with a particular situation (which many people in their rush to project their own unfortunate experience have tended to skim) but has been driven away because people haven't listened.

I've spent forty years working in autism, and I absolutely empathise with many parents here. It's a really hard road.
But it doesn't blind me to the fact that there are parents who are at best mistaken and at worst, purposefully claiming a disorder that doesn't exist. Which is hugely damaging to the child, and we simply cannot ignore that.

OP did not deserve the anger and lack of empathy for her concern for her niece, that she has had to endure here.

Could be either option. Mum might be over anxious, in which case the child's missing out on some experiences but just like any kid who doesn't have all typical experiences they'll adapt and it'll become apparent she's not autistic with age.
Or the child, being a girl, may be masking and the mum may be experiencing extreme meltdowns once the child is alone and feeling safe after holding it together infront of others.
It'll become clear by about 5 so I'd just wait and see and not get overly involved other than suggesting mum gets her on the waiting list as an assessment for autism takes 2-3 years with the waiting lists.

Er..I don’t think I have all alleged anything, I think I said in my other post that none of us can know and I appreciate the struggles that some parents have gone through to get aa asd diagnosis, my family members included.It’s equally wrong to assume asd is the most likely cause. We all have our own particular biases that will make us read the op’s post in a particular way . I do object to a mum declaring her child HAS autism but declining to seek a diagnosis and teaching the child unhelpful strategies like pushing another child away. If the child’s own father is raising concerns do you not think this is important?

Doctors won't prescribe antibiotics without reason. No doctor is going to go "oh mum wants this, I'll give it even though theres no bacterial infection"
Who told you the test came back clear?

And hearing and eye tests should be done. Hearing if there are any concerns, and eye tests as standard, I'd be concerned if a parent wasn't bothering to get their children's eyes or teeth checked.

Sorry - I meant in general not to quote you specifically I’m not sure why that happened apologies !

you really don't understand what masking is for a child with ASD.

My dd has masked all her life.
For her it means doing what she has been told, and trying her hardest to do it.
eg sitting still on the carpet, do the activity, join in the group singing or whatever.

She finds it exhausting, and as a small child, everyone around her (nursery etc) thought she was charming, because she chatted well beyond her age and chatted to adults.

No-one really noticed (until we looked back and saw it) how hard she found it to make friends with her own age group, how hard it was to cope in busy situation and how overwhlemed she was.

The charming delightful 3 year old came out of nursery and melted down all over me.

My instinct was to only put her in nursery 4 mornings per week, and only half days. I am so glad I did that, as she really loved her days at home, and she seemed to need it.

Fast forward to year 1 and she is screaming in the playground, having to be peeled off me to go in the door as she cannot cope with the transition. OK once in school. Melt downs at home.

She is now 16. We are just at the end of the process of getting her a diagnosis.
Pretty much everyone round (grandparents etc) were surprised.
The only one who wasn't is my friend who has an son with ASD and over the years I had confided in her a lot about dds behaviour.
When I decided to push for a diagnosis she pretty much said - about bloody time. (nicely!)

Yes, and the hearing and eye tests are obvious first line things to try if a child is not responding to things you would expect them to due to autistic shut down.

I obviously don’t know whether or not this child has autism or an over anxious mum but what I do know is that as a parent of a neurodivergent child it is very common to have your parenting strategies misinterpreted by people who see only a snapshot. It is also very common to have people who don’t know your child and often haven’t even met him absolutely convinced that he either has or hasn’t got autism. I used to get both before he was assessed, including from professionals.

DH and I have been convinced our daughter is autistic for a long time. She’s 6. At 2 she was skin picking and advanced speech, toe walking etc but it’s more her meltdowns over things that people never saw because she’s so quiet and well behaved in front of people. It’s female socialisation a lot of the time that means women are diagnosed after years of anxiety/being misdiagnosed with other things rather than girls being diagnosed with autism in childhood. I now look back and see I clearly was an autistic child but was told I was ‘dramatic’ and a daydreamer and a loner.

I don’t know if this is the case with your niece but when I spoke to DD’s key worker at nursery she said “she makes good eye contact so I have no concerns.” Difficulty maintaining eye contact is not a symptom in girls! And when she’s having a meltdown she can’t look at me she is in another world.

I think you should start off by listening to and believing your sister when she raises concerns even if you don’t think it’s autism, something is bothering her. Maybe your sister is also neurodiverse but undiagnosed and doesn’t want the same for her Dd.

I don’t know if this is the case with your niece but when I spoke to DD’s key worker at nursery she said “she makes good eye contact so I have no concerns.” Difficulty maintaining eye contact is not a symptom in girls!

when we first went to GP to get a referral, at the end of the session (dd was about 13) she spoke to dd, all smiles and sweetness, well dear you don't have autism do you, you have been able to keep eye contact with me during this chat.
I wasn't in the room.
But

1. difficulty maintaining eye contact is not a symptom in girls
2. dd said to me when she came out - but I was looked over her should at the notice board behind because I know you are supposed to look at people but it makes me uncomfortable!

Exactly @steppemum it’s just another way we (societally) fail young girls from the start.

And as their mums we are up against it trying to get them the support they need.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1467378/mum-forced-her-son-to-pretend-he-had-autism-for-ten-years-in-375k-benefits-scam/amp/

From America

Question - Can a parent fake his child has Autism for a financial reason, can this fall through the system?

Answer - As a Speech/Language pathologist working in a public school setting, I have seen many inaccurate diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder.

Often children are diagnosed by evaluators, in a clinical setting, by people who have a few impressive letters after their names and diplomas on their walls. This implies ‘expertise’.

It is important to realize that this diagnosis is not based on blood tests, MRI, xray, urine test, or any other scientific, or medical measures. The diagnosis is made predominantly from questionnaires and check lists filled out by parents and teachers, as well as observations made by the clinician conducting the evaluation.

The questions posed on the forms filled out by parents and teachers may be interpreted differently by each person and responses may vary based on different contexts and situations, the respondent references while citing the occurrence of a certain behavior.

This makes it difficult for the person to rate the behavior in question. Furthermore, we all perceive the level of intensity differently.

So a very controlled/ controlling or rigid adult whose own children were compliant may view a behavior as significantly intense/disruptive whereas a more tolerant person who is accustomed to managing a wide range of behaviors in children, may not find certain behaviors/traits to be significant or extreme.
In addition, most children and adults are self conscious and awkward in novel situations especially when their behaviors and personalities are being evaluated by an unfamiliar person in a clinical environment.

This uncomfortable situation may actually elicit behaviors RESEMBLING autism, since social conventions, appropriate interactions, ability to adapt in novel situations are some of the things which are the most challenging for those who are on the spectrum. These weaknesses are also characteristics ( secondary) of other learning disorders.

I seldom see differential diagnosis anymore. In a span of a few hours, an unfamiliar person renders a diagnosis based on observation of an unfamiliar person and checklists filled out by unfamiliar people whose perceptions are subjective. Parents believe that their children will get more services with this diagnosis .

The will but they will not get the appropriate services! They eill carry this diagnosis forever and it will preclude them from the military and who knows what else! Students whom I worked with were devastated when they discovered that they were diagnosed with autism. But, yes, parents do receive more money through social security for their children with this diagnosis!

@ChateauDuMont
Interesting that as a speech and language therapist she believes she is capable of knowing if the child has been misdiagnosed but those trained to assess aren't.

What then ? As part of a child’s ASD assessment should parents have a full psychological evaluation to make sure it’s not FII??? Just in case it’s one of the very very rare cases ?

If you're going to post a wall of text from some random on quora, at least provide a link.

ChateauDuMont

What a load of rubbish you do post. In all your scrolling you only found 1 story from 2016 which was focused on asthma and doesn’t say this child even got an autism diagnosis.