Can you coach a child to show autistic behavior's

[wonderings2]

This sounds bonkers and I'm probably going to get ripped to shreds but here goes...

My sister is convinced her 3 yo DD is autistic, the problem is she's the only one that does. In reaction to numerous people pointing out that they don't see the child showing any autistic behavior's she almost seems to be encouraging the child to behave in a certain way...

There are so many examples but a few:

She attends nursery 5 days a week for 10 hours a day, she has asked them for a SEN assessment but they refused as they have said she isn't showing any neurodiverse behavior's and they have no concerns regarding her development, but said if there are any specific adaptions she would like they would look into it, she asked for a tent /den that the child can go into when she overwhelmed that the other children know they cant go into, they put this in place but pointed out 2 months later that the child never uses it.

She has taught the child to shout "space" and (fairly gently) push a person /child away if she feels they are too close to her, the problem is no-one has actually seen he child do this unless her mum prompts her, so for example we were at a park and sister was fretting as another child was playing to close to her, so she got her attention and did the movement prompting the child to shout "space" and push the other child away. They were both happily playing before that but understandably the other child moved away.

She hovers over her playing and told another child off for climbing up the slide her DD was trying to slide down as "DD is autistic and doesn't understand when other children don't do things the right way, it could upset her and cause a melt down"

She claims the child has fixations on certain foods, toys tv shows etc but no-one else see's these, theres a never a photo (we share loads of photos) and you don't hear the child talk about it.

She doesn't include the child in activities like trick or treating and seeing Santa as it will overstimulate her then rants on social media about her being left out? Other family members take the child for the day and she copes fine.

Sisters husband was getting so concerned that he mentioned it to our mum, his Dad (a retired school teacher) and friends and they all said they didn't believe the child was currently showing any autistic behavior's. She reacted very badly to this, said a mum knows her child best and that we are all denial, the child only shows autistic traits around her because she feels safe with her and is masking all other times.

Interestingly she isn't pursuing a diagnosis as she is claiming the nursery agree with her (they don't) and when the child starts school next year they can provide support without needing a diagnosis??

How much one on one time do you spend with your niece? If not much, I would plan to spend lots of time looking after her alone to make your own accurate judgement if you are genuinely worried about Munchausens By Proxy.

It is statistically much more likely that your niece is on the spectrum than that your sister has MBP. My daughter has ASD and I always knew there was something different about her, right from being tiny. Neither nursery or school agreed with me until she reached puberty and it became much more obvious.

There is a tone of exasperation with your sister which suggests to me that she also has undiagnosed ASD which has always been interpreted as being over anxious/ annoying, tbh. I understand the exasperation if I'm honest but it is unfair.

Not always.

I'd also question if your sister could be autistic, could she be unwittingly transferring feelings she had at that age onto the daughter?

My other thought is that sometimes a mother does know best. I wouldn't hold any store by the fact nursery haven't picked anything up. My daughter has ADHD, neither nursery or school picked up on it. It was obvious to me from age 4, but I stupidly waited years thinking if there was a problem, they would know. The reality is they don't have the time or attention. Whatever training they have, they can't know a child the way a parent does. Also my child masks a great deal, so yes, it was me getting the brunt of it. Life was unnecessarily difficult for years; I rarely mentioned it to anyone but when I did, I was undermined. It was very lonely tbh. Since diagnosis and medication, life is transformed and she is flourishing at school.

Whatever the answer, your sister needs your support. Find out more about neuro divergence, the more family get involved, the sooner you'll get to the bottom of it.

It sounds like your DSis is not well herself, as this is very strange behaviour.

If her DC were truly autistic, the nursery would have seen enough DC to confirm they had noticed specific behavioural indicators.

My DC was 1 when nursery first raised the potential of additional needs. My EXDP, DC's Dad, wouldn't hear of it at the time. Nursery were right and 1 year down the line DC received a diagnosis, 5 years later they attend a specialist school for autistic DC.

I would look into your DSis's state of mind, before doing anything further regarding the autism.

Im struggling to reply to everyone, but thank you for the different perspectives - just confirm Im not judging her at all and Im certain she has her best interests at heart, its just with the other trips to the doctors and hospital its concerning, shes obviously struggling and I cant seem to find a way to support her 😞

She may well be autistic and it is true girls seem to slip through the net, Im far from an expert and I assumed a 3 year old wouldnt be able to mask for such long period of time but I suppose they can?

Also I was worried about offending people with ND kids, I know the diagnosis process is awful for most people and they're often up against the "there was no autism in my day" tribe 🙄I honesty think its awful what parents have to go through to get help, so really no hate at all.

I saw it happen when my kid got out of NICU.

Another mum I befriended in there always seemed to claim things were wrong with her baby when mine or other mums babies were diagnosed. Epilepsy, autism, ADHD, oh apparently her kid had it all in the first few years, didn’t talk, wasn’t sociable, had absent seizures. The docs kept pushing her away and she said she was “fighting” it.

Could have knocked me with a feather when we had a reunion and her child was a chatty & sociable , well beyond her years.

I suspect there was a lure of DLA somewhere if I’m being honest

I have no idea in this case but my primary school aged child is autistic and in a special school. His nursery didn’t believe he was autistic as he was nothing like the autistic child they had a few years before with a more typical presentation. Girls can be even harder to identify. My MIL, a former primary school teacher, also repeatedly told me to stop worrying as there was nothing wrong with him. Other mums couldn’t see why I was pursuing an assessment. He was really quite clear cut and diagnosed at 4 years.

You don’t know. It may be autism, it may not, but I wouldn’t jump to conclusions. Supporting her and encouraging her to seek help is going to be the most helpful thing.

Girls can mask for years OP. Right into adulthood.

I spent many years not being believed my girls were autistic, guess what? They both have a diagnosis!!!
Unless you understand how autism presents in females i would say keep your opinions to yourself.

This is extremely worrying.

A 3 yo is way too young to diagnose unless they are very high needs, which would be obvious to a lot of people.

Of all of the autistic people I have known, they’ve not needed what your sister is asking for.
You don’t do things just in case DD gets overwhelmed.
You realise that certain situations are overwhelming and what can be done to help them.

Out of the 60 autistic kids I work with only 5 ever use a tent.
The test use other strategies to cope with different things.

It’s like she’s read up on what some autistic people like/dislike and is playing on it.

Of course her DD may be autistic but the fact that she’s stopping her from playing it’s a friend etc because of her own anxiety is worrying.

Its very possible that school has picked up on her issues and there’s not much you can do apart from support her and gently encourage her to let DD just be herself and then make changes if needed.

I know someone like this. 4 children and they all have neurodiversities that they don't actually have. I don't understand it but it happens.

When my eldest was little I had a feeling something was wrong. My gut told me autistic and I also felt there was a medical issue. No one else saw this and I thought it was in my mind and I didn't have a mums instinct.
Countless appointments where I was reassured child was perfectly healthy. On the autism side the violence and outbursts were immense but mostly only experienced by me initially. I sought help from health visitor and was made to feel a bad parent. As child got older other families started to see some of what I had been seeing. School and professionals said child was 'fine' and I needed to be firmer etc.

One trip to out of hours resulted in a transfer to hospital where a congenital and serious medical condition was diagnosed. A condition present from birth but missed by countless doctors.

Since then child has also been diagnosed autistic.
I didn't make my child autistic and I didn't create the congenital condition.

Now, did my gut feeling come from just know as a parent or was my gut feeling a coincidence?
No one can know for sure but the impact of family, friends and professionals not listening and just assuming I was wrong was hugely detrimental to my metal health.

Maybe she’s her mother and knows her better than you? It seems a bit more likely that Munchausen’s by proxy to me,

I’ve got an autistic DS and I’ve even had professionals tell me he’s not autistic - once while he’s been flapping his hands and nutting the floor.

My aunt did this with both her kids. She eventually went private to get diagnoses and paid for it for them both. They now as adults don’t have anything to do with her. She even had one in a wheelchair once for months because of her weak legs. It‘s just awful.
Yoir post raises lots of flags for me @wonderings2

@wonderings2

In relation To masking.... It is quite amazing how adept some can be at masking from a very young age.
My child is able to mask for prolonged periods but the impact was the mask slips is awful. A trained professional could recognize masking even when it was very well hidden.
An adult I know says they even mask around close family and can only be themselves when on their own.

And plenty more who are happy to diagnose autism in a child they've never met, and whose mother already exhibits over-the-top worries over other potential concerns that have proved to be completely unfounded, such as eyesight and hearing, both of which have been tested and found completely normal.

Seems to me that she's now homed in on something almost impossible to prove, and that is behavioural issues which mysteriously only ever occur when she has the dc, and which are never exhibited or seen by anyone else when the child is with them.

This is not always the case.

If her DC were truly autistic, the nursery would have seen enough DC to confirm they had noticed specific behavioural indicators

My daughter is “truly autistic”, yet we were told for years, by pre-school, primary school and then a few years in to secondary school that she was fine, there was nothing wrong, it was just anxiety, that I was anxious.

Until it all went spectacularly wrong 4 years ago and she had a mental health breakdown. The Consultant Psychiatrist at CAMHS was amazed she hadn’t been referred for an assessment years ago, referred her straight away and she was diagnosed earlier this year.

Girls present very differently and it’s well known now that girls mask for years.

I don’t know, given my experiences, I probably wouldn’t just write off her concerns tbh.

The most obvious cause is the most likely.

FII is extremely rare. ASD is not as rare. Support her and believe her - if you get to the stage where she’s had numerous assessments and no diagnosis perhaps revisit the possibility of FII but jumping straight in to suspecting that is wrong. Be supportive and try to persuade her to have an assessment

Nursery have misses many traits, especially in girls. No wonder girls are diagonsed later. Yet, many parents knew. Just knew early on.

DD2 wasn't diagnosed with AuDHD until she was at university.

I knew when she was 3.

Absolute angel at nursery, fine at school (until a teenager at any rate). Fine at home until a teenager because I could manage her needs.

Her father doesn't believe it and would absolutely have been screaming MBP at the top of his lungs had it even been vaguely alluded to in his presence.

They’re not though.
The people with dcs diagnosed with autism are for the most part being more circumspect and saying that nursery doesn’t necessarily know and not to dismiss it out of hand, quoting their own experience.

I think the best way you could support OP would be to maybe offer to help your sister with the diagnosis process? It can take years and tbh asd children in schools often struggle and are left without support for too long or end up with MH issues because no one recognises they're autistic or they 'look fine' in school.

I don't believe anyone could coach a child to fake asd. Although no doubt someone will pop along shortly to say they know someone who is diagnosed who is definitely not autistic (in their single, not qualified to diagnose) opinion.

Either way the conclusion will help your sister or dn.

My sisters youngest child is autistic. She recognised it well before anyone else in the family. Things she felt weren't quite right we were dismissing as normal toddler/pre school behaviour and often he would cope fine when he was around others for several hours but as soon as he was home with his Mum would melt down completely.
A mother knows her child better than anyone else can. I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the fabricated illness bandwagon - this is really something her husband needs to be having discussions with her about rather than with other family members.

@Starseeking

If her DC were truly autistic, the nursery would have seen enough DC to confirm they had noticed specific behavioural indicators.

Of course they wouldn't. DDs school never mentioned Autism. Luckily my doctor thought she had enough traits to warrant an assessment that was nearly 3 years ago.

I was 35 when I was diagnosed. Most people don't care they just do their job at go home. My mum didn't even suspect it.