Can you coach a child to show autistic behavior's

[wonderings2]

This sounds bonkers and I'm probably going to get ripped to shreds but here goes...

My sister is convinced her 3 yo DD is autistic, the problem is she's the only one that does. In reaction to numerous people pointing out that they don't see the child showing any autistic behavior's she almost seems to be encouraging the child to behave in a certain way...

There are so many examples but a few:

She attends nursery 5 days a week for 10 hours a day, she has asked them for a SEN assessment but they refused as they have said she isn't showing any neurodiverse behavior's and they have no concerns regarding her development, but said if there are any specific adaptions she would like they would look into it, she asked for a tent /den that the child can go into when she overwhelmed that the other children know they cant go into, they put this in place but pointed out 2 months later that the child never uses it.

She has taught the child to shout "space" and (fairly gently) push a person /child away if she feels they are too close to her, the problem is no-one has actually seen he child do this unless her mum prompts her, so for example we were at a park and sister was fretting as another child was playing to close to her, so she got her attention and did the movement prompting the child to shout "space" and push the other child away. They were both happily playing before that but understandably the other child moved away.

She hovers over her playing and told another child off for climbing up the slide her DD was trying to slide down as "DD is autistic and doesn't understand when other children don't do things the right way, it could upset her and cause a melt down"

She claims the child has fixations on certain foods, toys tv shows etc but no-one else see's these, theres a never a photo (we share loads of photos) and you don't hear the child talk about it.

She doesn't include the child in activities like trick or treating and seeing Santa as it will overstimulate her then rants on social media about her being left out? Other family members take the child for the day and she copes fine.

Sisters husband was getting so concerned that he mentioned it to our mum, his Dad (a retired school teacher) and friends and they all said they didn't believe the child was currently showing any autistic behavior's. She reacted very badly to this, said a mum knows her child best and that we are all denial, the child only shows autistic traits around her because she feels safe with her and is masking all other times.

Interestingly she isn't pursuing a diagnosis as she is claiming the nursery agree with her (they don't) and when the child starts school next year they can provide support without needing a diagnosis??

And it was from the Sun with no name. 😂😂😂

It was on the internet so it must be true.

I know of a child who was removed from its parents due to them making out the child was autistic, they kept the child in nappies, bought it ear defenders and claimed the child was overwhelmed by noises, touch etc…., SS put the child into foster care and they were toilet trained within a couple days. So yes it does happen sadly. The sad thing is that it’s people like this that are making it hard for others to get a diagnosis, they are taking up professionals time, SENCO’s and teachers time which makes diagnosis for others take even longer.

I can’t find much data about the true incidence of FII as even professionals aren’t clear on the exact criteria that makes a case FII - there’s also the step down or precursor to FII which is ‘perplexing presentations’ so it’s very hard to put an exact figure on it but I did find this 0.4-2.8 in 100000

And then this explains how a lot of new ASD cases are in minority groups and certain socioeconomic groups and gives some figures - you can see the rate of ASD for England is far higher than international rates for FII

There’s also a concerning link between a complaint being made by a parent and then an accusation of FII.

Im not saying FII doesn’t happen - it does but it’s so incredibly rare and when it does happen is more likely to be something far worse such as poisoning etc - I think the FII And ASD link is so unfair and just highlights the massive prejudice there still is over hidden disability.

I know a little girl who almost certainly is autistic. She seemed completely NT until fairly recently though mum told me of her concerns and meltdowns at home.

The mask is definitely slipping as she is getting older although she is no "trouble" in public situations, albeit very shy and quiet.

Compared to autistic boys I have know, she's completely different.

I wouldn't dismiss out of hand.

OP you should report your concerns to Children’s Services. It sounds like Perplexing Presentation.
Safeguarding is everyone’s buisness. Reporting your concerns doesn’t mean the child will be removed - it is just a piece of the puzzle that might or might not add up to anything.

It would be a waste of SS time - if they are looking into these type of ‘cases’ they’ll miss real cases of abuse.

What do people want - everyone who has a child with possible autism to be investigated as a potential safeguarding risk in case it’s FII? Just because it happens so so rarely - that’s like saying ‘well a lot of children who have been murdered had a step parent so we need to investigate all of those families just in case ‘

The over inflation of the possible financial benefits as well on this thread is ridiculous- it’s not easy free money and a free car it’s incredibly difficult and a long wait to get dla. You need supporting evidence too.

@wonderings2 you need to just have an honest conversation if you’re that worried and offer help and support, maybe spend some more time with them and you may see that these issues are in fact genuine or you may see more evidence that there’s a problem but jumping in and calling SS now isn’t the right thing to do at all

Speech and language therapists are very much part of the assessment process. Fundamental, even, given that autism is a social communication disorder.

These days nearly all paediatric SALTs work is with autistic children. If your child simply has a speech articulation issue you don't have a cat in hell's chance of getting help for them. They have to prioritise children with language and communication disorders, understandably. My granddaughter's SALT has a long waiting list and all those children either have a diagnosis or a strong suspicion of autism.

@saraclara

My point being that the article slates professionals involved in the process and yet makes it that SALT is the final word on expertise.

They may work with autistic children, they may write reports but they don't override all the other experts

I completely agree with you @Parentblame

Yes this was my thought too.

This, exactly.

Your SIL obviously thinks it's cool to have the autistic label on their child (she's not the only one nowadays) so frustrating for people who genuinely need help and the resources.

I'd assume her DD is the only child? Therefore she has nothing to compare normal child behaviour too.

Yes and no.

She does sound a bit batshit. But as the mother of a high functioning autistic child that presents as fairly neurotypical it can be hard. He masks at school and I’m 80% sure they think I’m batshit.

We have a school/home link book. So many times it states that EggChild enjoyed X activity and when I see EggChild they are in floods of tears and having a meltdown about the very same thing school saw them as “enjoying”.

Luckily the psychiatrist and two psychologists that undertook their assessment know what they are looking for.

Just to add. It wasn’t until I had DC2 that I realised frequently googling “is my child autistic” isn’t normal, I’ve never had a smidge of an inkling with DC2. It’s like buying a car with a dodgy clutch, you don’t realise how hard it is to drive until you buy an automatic.

I’d keep well out of it, OP. I agree that it’s concerning and I wonder whether it’s connected to her own health anxiety- perhaps she’s seeing health issues that don’t really exist?

If no one else is seeing signs, including the father, she may eventually be reassured that everything is fine.

Sounds like MH difficulty. Look into Munchausens by Proxy.

I agree that the forms are bizzarre.
for adhd it had about spelling. Nothing really about behaviour when younger.
me and dp couldn t agree on ratings out of 5. Then school had slightly different questions and filled in differently.

seemed to imply that if doing ok academically couldnt be adhd. Dc seems ok but theres a big diff if performing at 45th percentile when ability is 5-10th. With stupid errors.
And asd is similar the questions open to how you interpret. Some questions for the child to answer (there were 0 in the adhd one- so they think an asd child would be more self aware!?!)

i hope more genetic tests will appear for asd/adhd as this process takes way too long. And too open to bias.

a much bigger concern than going into the military is - how will knowing kids have asd affect their relationships and having kids.

Some extra costs of even a 'mild' child might be selective about foods, my one dc decided she wouldnt sleep on sofa on holiday, starting clubs that they then wont do, them not beong able to do before or after clubs regularly as exhausted so restricting work hours.

Im surprised a kid would put on ear defenders if they dont need to.
Its unlikely a school would remind them like glasses.

The other thing is that as the parent of an autistic child you are constantly trying things and you don’t know what will work: if you have a child who is upset by noises you might try ear defenders, the child doesn’t like them because they feel self conscious, you try those special ear plugs, the child doesn’t like the way they feel. Doesn’t mean they don’t have a problem. The thing with the mother insisting on a tent and then the child never uses it could easily be something similar.

My son has severe ASD and detests And ripped off ear defenders when we tried them - he hates certain noises / loud noises but hated there feeling of ear defenders more

The will but they will not get the appropriate services! They eill carry this diagnosis forever and it will preclude them from the military and who knows what else!

This is an interesting point and one which I’m not sure many parents are considering. I actually know a young man who was diagnosed with all manner of things as a child, including asd and a dairy allergy. As young adult he feels he has neither and his ambition was to join the marines, well he can’t! This has lead to a fair bit of resentment.

I also know 2 families where they have essentially been given the choice of accepting (NHS) formal diagnosis because their dc are extremely high functioning, and they don’t want to make life difficult for them down the line if they want to pressure certain careers. Given that high functioning children are very unlikely to have a materially different experience going through U.K. school, it does seem sensible. I know of people who have essentially completely changed from childhood to adulthood. I do wonder what % of the recent explosion of diagnosis will stick when these children become adults.

The not joining the forces can be challenged. They never use to accept deaf people in forces but this has changed now.
Dairy allergy can resolves naturally as the gut matures. So it isn't always a life long allergy. Allergy can vary in severity from mild hives , stomach upsets right through to risk to life

Grandmasswag

What an absolutely shocking, ignorant, ableist and completely inaccurate post. I will be reporting it.

My children are high functioning as am I. I have a degree.School is impacted hugely and very different if you’re ND. Many of us will be handling ADHD too as they frequently overlap.How can education not be hugely different with a disability to deal with?

All of us have been diagnosed under the NHS and you don’t get a choice re accepting it. You either meet the threshold or you don’t.

Autism and ADhD never go away.