Can you coach a child to show autistic behavior's

[wonderings2]

This sounds bonkers and I'm probably going to get ripped to shreds but here goes...

My sister is convinced her 3 yo DD is autistic, the problem is she's the only one that does. In reaction to numerous people pointing out that they don't see the child showing any autistic behavior's she almost seems to be encouraging the child to behave in a certain way...

There are so many examples but a few:

She attends nursery 5 days a week for 10 hours a day, she has asked them for a SEN assessment but they refused as they have said she isn't showing any neurodiverse behavior's and they have no concerns regarding her development, but said if there are any specific adaptions she would like they would look into it, she asked for a tent /den that the child can go into when she overwhelmed that the other children know they cant go into, they put this in place but pointed out 2 months later that the child never uses it.

She has taught the child to shout "space" and (fairly gently) push a person /child away if she feels they are too close to her, the problem is no-one has actually seen he child do this unless her mum prompts her, so for example we were at a park and sister was fretting as another child was playing to close to her, so she got her attention and did the movement prompting the child to shout "space" and push the other child away. They were both happily playing before that but understandably the other child moved away.

She hovers over her playing and told another child off for climbing up the slide her DD was trying to slide down as "DD is autistic and doesn't understand when other children don't do things the right way, it could upset her and cause a melt down"

She claims the child has fixations on certain foods, toys tv shows etc but no-one else see's these, theres a never a photo (we share loads of photos) and you don't hear the child talk about it.

She doesn't include the child in activities like trick or treating and seeing Santa as it will overstimulate her then rants on social media about her being left out? Other family members take the child for the day and she copes fine.

Sisters husband was getting so concerned that he mentioned it to our mum, his Dad (a retired school teacher) and friends and they all said they didn't believe the child was currently showing any autistic behavior's. She reacted very badly to this, said a mum knows her child best and that we are all denial, the child only shows autistic traits around her because she feels safe with her and is masking all other times.

Interestingly she isn't pursuing a diagnosis as she is claiming the nursery agree with her (they don't) and when the child starts school next year they can provide support without needing a diagnosis??

My dd1 has asd, the health visitor denied there was an issue, nursery denied there was an issue - luckily a second hv said it was best to refer any way and lo and behold a diagnosis was given by a panel 🙈 school can see there is an issue. I knew, I don't have munchausen by proxy but I think you lot would probably hung me out to dry by the sounds of it!

@MissGroves did you have health anxiety and a history of thinking your DC had health issues that test proved they did not? I suspect not.

I find it staggering that people believe a 3 yo can ‘mask’. The world really has gone bonkers. NT three year olds don’t ‘know’ how to behave in public because they have been on the planet for 3 years. How is it possible a ND three yo has observed (adult? Older child?) behaviour and learnt to never show signs of ND behaviour for the whole days and weeks they’re at nursery?

You can’t just fill in the form with the right words and get DLA. You need to provide evidence that backs up what you’ve written.

Most children with autism will not pass the threshold for DLA never mind motability. There needs to be other issues or severe issues that are backed up by evidence.

The warning signs for my DS were there at nursery. They picked up on some but he had glue ear and the SALT he saw said there was no issues.

Once he started school they picked up on issues and we got referred to camhs. All this took time.

In that time not one member of my family believed DS had autism. I was told I was making it up. One even suggested DS had been sexually abused instead. Even exH didn’t think there was anything wrong. It was a very lonely place to be.

At age 5 DS had been assessed by all the professionals and he was diagnosed with ASD and sensory processing disorder.

Whether the DD had autism or not, or mum has an issue or not it’s clear they need some support not judgement.

Out of my 3 children who are autistic each of their primary schools and nursery said they were not autistic. The NHS disagreed. Schools are nurseries with some exceptions are really bad at accepting a child is autistic especially when they mask. It's infuriating when people say oh they are fine here, they are fine with me. No they aren't fine and the child will suffer later due to masking.

I find it staggering that you don't realise three year olds mask. Both my dd's since diagnosed masked. They wanted to fit in even at a young age.

Your nursey was rare. All of my dc but one are autistic not one we thought to be autistic at nursery. Three of them masked , the others did not.

@Boilingover24
The mask isn't so much that the 3 yr old has observed and copied the adult older child behaviour. It's more that the child is in a fawn mode so no extremes of behaviour or copies peers in unfamiliar environments or in environments / with people that they aren't as comfortable with.

In our case this would be conversing with adults like an adult. Child would literally repeat phrases heard from conversations they had observed. This would be a full mimic of tone, speech and facial expression. (On occasion this would also be accents used for phrases heard) People though child an wonderful advanced child. Conversing from 2 yrs old at a far higher level.

But it was all a mask/coping of behaviour.

As parent I would then get the outbursts that didn't match the child others saw.
It is really hard for those not living these experiences to understand how it is possible but it is.

Outbursts/meltdowns/tantrums at 2, 3,4 years old aren't out of the ordinary. But one day while a professional was in the home they experienced first hand the extremes in behaviour. Initially they were experiencing a perfectly behaved, delightful 5 year old child. Said child then asked politely for professional to leave now. When this didn't happen the mask started to slide with child becoming distressed and violent towards the professional.
This led to parenting course (alot of judgement) and an eventual referral for assessment

Your sister is the only one who needs help.

I have a son with autism, was very clear and diagnosed by a clinical psychologist when he was almost 3.

I also work in the education sector so I see ASD personally and professionally.

It could be that the parent is with the child in all types of situations and the child just masks it in front of others and is herself in front of mum.

BUT
in my job we are also seeing a rise in parents who crave the attention that an ASD diagnosis brings.

Munchausen by proxy seems, at the moment, to be more about faking/inducing mental heath difficulties and learning difficulties/educational difficulties rather than the tradition of inducing/faking physical difficulties/illness.

So much confidence for someone displaying a really exquisite level of ignorance. Unless you were actively trying to look reactionary and ill-informed?

@Serena1977 - what attention does it bring? Do you mean the medical appointments to get the diagnosis.

One you have one there isnt any attention. Its really isolating and lonely.

She had health anxiety and has already thought her child had problems that tests showed were not present. I doubt she is purposely faking it, she probably does believe what she is saying even though there is no evidence for it, just like the previous health issues she was worried about.

I found with my dc as well they would ‘zone out’ as a coping strategy and in a busy nursery as they were quiet they were mistaken for being ‘fine’ when they were far from it

It’s quite possible to have health anxiety and a child with autism though , and some of it may be from initially she knew something was ‘off’ so was working through things and hadn’t considered ASD initially- it’s not straightforward at all and jumping straight to FII is dangerous

Show me evidence that a 3 yo could possibly mask. There is a reason that the nhs will hardly ever start a diagnosis before the age of 4 +. A 3 yo May show traits of asd but if a child is in nursery full time they will at least be noticed by staff.

@Boilingover24

In my experience they notice the children who behaviour causes them problems in the setting. The children who are not actually causing problems.in the setting won't be noticed in the same way. This is why typical male ASD traits will be picked up as they tend to be the more visible and often more disruptive to the setting.

I am also a professional who visits schools and I have seen visually sick children, who the staff haven't noticed are sick as they are just sat in a corner. To me the body language, the visual appearance indicated that the child was sick. As soon as I ask 'Bob* are you ok?' staff looked over and acted within minutes

So nursery picking up on masking is rare

At this stage you know nothing.

as a mother of two autistic children both are very very different.

I wasn’t in the best place to spot it as to me they are ‘normal’.

eldest highly academic GCSEs at aged 13 then other GCSEs - all level 9, 4 A* leve, head girlfriend, gold D of E , runs her own business an absolutely amazing communicator etc. comes home and melts down totally. Struggles socially but learns techniques etc

finds nothing strange about memorising every elements and the their structures etc on about 30 minutes.

took a long to get a diagnosis aged 16.

son was diagnosed at 8. Very different. Struggled to tell difference between a cartoon and something real. Takes everything literally etc

keeep an open mind bug support the mum - encourage counselling for her and regular breaks from parenting

3 yos absolutely can mask. At 3 my son started nursery, he would often meltdown about things at home, at nursery he learnt this brought a lot of attention which he didn't like and and made things worse. He very quickly started to shutdown instead so as not to draw attention.

Absolutely but this sounds more dangerous.

And yeah they do mask. They shut down them come home and are in hell letting it all out (personal experience of this).

Believe me, not all parents actually do know their child. Or know what’s best for them. That’s why children’s services are so overwhelmed and why safeguarding is such high profile.
To claim all parents know what’s best for their child is at best over generous, at worst completely ignorant.

Most psychologists would disagree with this. Children below the age of 8 do not have the capacity to ‘mask’ as that would imply they have the ability to read a situation and control their emotions. A child with ASD is even less likely to be able to do either of these things at a young age.

You need to fight so hard to get a diagnosis at a young age. My son was diagnosed at 2. He has no ability or interest in masking. He has very high needs.

Agree it's often under diagnosed in girls but I find it hard to imagine the nursery wouldn't notice anything if she is there for so many hours. It's not just a 2 hr slot.

It's also really hard to get dla - you need so much evidence.

It all sounds like quite a challenging situation

If this were the case, there would be no need for diagnosticians, no one would need to assess anyone for anything. Wed just ask the Mom and she'd automatically know exactly what was going on inside their child's brain 🙄

Mom is seeing something no one else sees because it's isn't there. Mom needs support and help