Why are families so utterly shit

[whyamiawakestill]

I just need to rage and get this out, if anyone has similar stories please share as I feel a bit lost.

My dad died a couple of years ago, my brother lives overseas.

My elderly mum is in a financial pickle not enough savings, and will be out of money in about 3 years.

I'm trying help, to step in and get her permanent housing sorted sooner rather than later, we are selling cars, stoping our own plans, cutting back so we can find extra money.

It's stressful and hard but I'm willing to do anything to help my own mum, she's lovely and this isn't her fault it's due to having a father with mental health issues who couldn't earn for many years.

I finally have hit a wall I can't get enough so I messaged my brother a few days ago to ask further help. I'm talking £100-£200 a month. He's working, owns a home, no dependents. Has holiday plans, new cars etc he's ok, not minted but ok for money.

And he's said sorry no I can't afford to help.

So basically I'm on my own and I just feel so so angry, my poor dad would be livid.

How on earth do I move forward with this anger? I'm crying typing this, I can't even understand that level of selfish.

Hugs @whyamiawakestill It's shit. I've been there and I know.

When my dad died my mum had no full state pension and they lived in a private rental.

I have a few questions which might help you on a practical level.

How long has your mum lived in the house for? If she's been there since before Jan 1989 then she likely has a protected tenancy. This will help her claim full housing benefit when she is entitled to it after savings have gone. You need to register the tenancy though but it's an easy process.

Does she have the full state pension and have you done a benefits check? Do one online with her savings at less than 16k and it will bring up what she is entitled to.

There are options through your local council for help for your mum once her savings dwindle too - fuel and shopping vouchers etc. all of these are linked to pension credit/housing benefit/council tax benefit. Even 1p award of these things opens many doors so please keep checking her entitlement.

She won't lose her home. Don't get her to move out.

I agree with others that it really isn't necessary to buy her somewhere and she is a lot better off than most.

If she's privately renting now, why can't she just privately rent somewhere set up for elderly people? And once her savings are below the threshold she will get financial help.

My mum is in sheltered accomodation and pays £600 per month for a 2 bed flat in the North West. Well actually it's covered by housing benefit, but your mum's would be too once her savings run down! It's been the best thing for her since losing my dad as she's been able to make friends and has a bit of a social life again. It's safe and secure, she still has independence but there is someone on site at all times and call buttons for emergencies etc. She doesn't have any savings and yes money is tight, my sister and I try to help where we can, but it never would have occurred to us to go into debt and struggle ourselves to buy her somewhere for what sadly could be a few short years. Because it's not necessary and because she wouldn't want us to do that! And I love my mum, I really do.

Personally I'd be trying to move her somewhere like that sooner rather than later, it will be much easier to move her before you get to the stage where her current property is no longer suitable and it's absolutely needed.

You sound like a lovely daughter and your mum is lucky to have you, but she's really not as badly off as you think. Good luck!

I agree with this. From your OP I thought your DM was destitute! Plenty of elderly people don't have any savings in the bank. Surely you can find her some sort of social housing so she isn't paying so much in rent? She should then be able to manage the rest. How do you think other people manage?

What type of house is it she's in now? Agree with those who are not sure what the issue is either and if its a 'few- hundred a month so £300 you're looking for £3600 a year from dB?
What level of lifestyle is to be maintained?

@whyamiawakestill I get that you're worried but you need to stop, regroup and do some research.
You're panicking here and not making rational decisions.

Why does your mum at her age need to own a property and why on earth would you compromise your own families financial security to get this for her.

I'm sorry but it's madness.

As for your brother, yes he may well be shit. He didn't come to his dad's funeral which on the face of it isn't great. Do you know why though?
There could be a good reason for it.

Parents with mental health issues can have a big impact on their children. If your dad was unwell through your childhood it could have really affected your brother.

Maybe he didn't feel as close to him/your mum as you do.

Whatever his reasons for the funeral and the refusal to give his mum a regular amount, that's his choice and it's ok for him to choose that.

Your expectations are too high and he doesn't owe your mum his money. He may be saying no because he realises this is a silly idea. Who knows.

But if you came across to him how you have here then he's right to step back.

So getting a mortgage that you and your brother pay was the original plan but he doesn't want to do that. It seems like a complicated way of dealing with the situation. Especially as your brother is overseas. There might be tax implications for him owning a second property in another country,

Ahh.. was original plan mortgage in op and dm name and getting dB to pay?

Really? Where?
I’m currently trying to move my parent into this type of independent living and the cheapest with someone inside 24hr is £370 a week, that’s £1600 a month.
my parent has a good monthly income of £1800 due to private pension and it’s still going to be a tough stretch.
we’re also in the north and in a market town do not an expensive area

Is your Mum aware that you’re selling everything to help her out? My Mum is a similar age and if I did this she’d be mortified. Get in touch with the council and ask for their help. I can’t believe you asked your brother for “a few hundred a month”. That is insane. I’m not surprised he said no and he was right to do so. As others have said she’s far from destitute and you’re selling everything you own?! The entire situation is bonkers. She’s got £40k and you’re selling your car!! You need to take another,realistic,look at the whole thing

I wouldn’t send over regular funds to someone unless I know it was needed for something specific and time-limited. In any case, I wouldn’t want to be brokering this through a sibling.

My experience is that the only sheltered and extra care housing available is in social housing- homeowners aren't eligible. At this stage of her life your plan isn't actually a great one and practical rather than financial help is where you can support.

So you have made decision and you ring our brother and demand he sends regular money and he says no now he is the one blamed?

Maybe trying calming down and stop ordering people about first then talk calmly and everyone can find a solution

You say 'what's the point' about calling your brother which doesn't make sense and it a totally defeatist attitude. Don't martyr yourself just because you're the daughter.
The point to calling your brother is to remind him that he also has responsibilities over his mother and not to be so self to leave it up to you.
Getting him to help and pursuing this avenue is obviously the route to take. It's harder to say no in a phone call than it is over a email or message.

have a meeting with citizens advice re benefits you may not be claiming for her. I’m pretty sure your savings have to be less than 22k before you can get help with continuing care. Speak to these assisted living places or even care homes think once the money runs out the government have to fund it.

Sheltered housing, rented. Then when her savings go under £16k she will get help with housing costs. Plus pension credit. Have you spoken to Citizens Advice or Age UK? They will have seen this situation time and again.

Buying a home especially shared ownership seems a bizarre idea at her age and she will not get certain support from welfare benefits as a home owner.

Maybe it's the mother's car they are selling. My mother is 80 and has an expensive car and a far busier social life than mine.

I had to bail my mother out of financial difficulties a few years ago. I'm angry with her not my siblings. Her choices (to take very early retirement, move to a more expensive area, and not think about her mortgage at all) impacted my life -my mother takes the view that my money is her money - I'm angry not so much that i had to bail her out but that i realised she had expected it.
Just because people are old (and i'm now older than my mother was when she retired with no retirement in sight) doesn't mean they aren't responsible for their own financial decisions

A few hundred quid is a big ask for a lot of people. I think it's unreasonable to expect this might be a realistic request of your brother.

Your brother is selfish unless he is struggling for money. You assume he’s not but he could be. I totally understand your anger and I think you’re doing a great job trying to advocate for your mum. Life isn’t as easy as some posters here think so. Of course people should save for retirement but that doesn’t always happen and doesn’t look like it’s the OP’s mums fault. The U.K. has a bit of an odd attitude in helping parents financially. DB’s wife is Eastern European and she sends money to her elderly grandparents and mum / dad regularly. I’d 100% help my mum if needed.

I think the only thing you can do if you can’t raise a mortgage for her is move your kids into one room (if same gender) so your mum can move in. Otherwise yes her savings will be depleted. If she needs care then her savings will be used (if not gone) and then she will get housing benefit (or whatever it’s called now). Agree she’s in a better position than some but it is a bit annoying life savings are depleted. My friends DP always says his mum did the right thing going on loads of cruises when she could and spending their life savings, unlike friends mum who has a lot of savings and now has to pay for own carers / eventually sell her home if she needs a care home.

Sorry @whyamiawakestill but I am also awake when I don't want to be, so I may not sound as sympathetic to your predicament as both you and I would like me to be. But before going any further, how come you and I seem to have the same brother? Mine also lives overseas and has been very selfish when dealing with our parents, and he also didn't come to our Dad's funeral. Like me, you should have probably been born circa the beginning of the 2nd World War, or even earlier!

Families these days are very different to how they used to be. I believe that for about the last 50 years there has been an unprecedented speed of change in the ways families live, interact, and view each other. I think that I would be fascinated if I could research all the reasons for such a massive change in circumstances, and it would probably take an indepth thesis for me to cover most of those reasons. So very, and inadequately quickly, I will just jot down what I consider to be the main and most easily seen reasons:

The dawn of modern day transport. Planes, trains, and automobiles. Diesel and then also electrically powered ones.

The relative ability and cheapness to travel very long distances away from home.

A much improved and extended education system - although some people may disagree with that statement. My father left school when he was 14 in the 1930s, even though he was highly intelligent.

The start of the welfare state.

The rapid advance in communication systems. Private telephones in every home started to rapidly increase in the late 1950s and the 1960s.

The rapid advance in technology, including the dawning of the age of computers, which quickly led to the birth of personal computers, and then the internet.

During the advance of technology, televisions became common place. Which led to documentaries and news programs which actually showed us life in countries far, far away from our own small villages and towns. Which then lured millions of people to experience life in some very different climates and cultures.

The downturn in some religious beliefs probably also had quite a profound affect and effect.
Whereas the rapid expansion of some other (other than the Protestant and Roman Catholic beliefs in Great Britain) religions in the UK will have presumably had a significant affect/effect on the changes in behaviour of our nuclear families.

Obviously, I am only, and very simply, grazing the surface of the enormous changes that have happened in the UK - and the rest of the World really - in the last 50 or so years.

So, to the point of my post 🙄🙈! I just wanted to say, please don't help or encourage your DM to buy her own house at the age of 80 years old. Apart from being responsible for any ongoing maintenance of the property, if it is bought in an assisted living complex, once she sadly dies, the property would need to be sold again, almost certainly along with a 'penalty' that has to be paid back to the management company. Also, very unfairly, your brother might be able to claim half of any profit made through the sale of the property...

You are a lovely DD for your DM, but I'm afraid I think you are being very naive, and not thinking straight at all. But please except a big hug from me, and some 💐

So the brother is 'selfish' for not giving £300 a month in ops demand? If she's doubt the same that £600 a month. What lifestyle is ds and dm expecting to be funded?

Your brother is selfish unless he is struggling for money.

So people should just not worry about their future and spend what they like and then get their children to hand over a 'few hundred pounds' a month?

That's not what I want for my children.

This.

I know that my selfish brother who has lived abroad for most of his adult life (that isn't why I think he is selfish), could not get very much of a state pension at all if he moved back here when he retires, as he has hardly paid any NI contributions at all. He has also worked freelance for a lot of his life and not paid into any sort of private pension fund. So he is trying to live very frugally at last, in order to have some money so that he can retire one day.

Maybe your brother is in a similar predicament OP, and so he therefore cannot afford to give away a hundred plus pounds a month, even to his own mother? I know that I would rather die than have any of my children help to finance my old age - unless they were multimillionaire of course!

You cannot control what other people do, you can only control your own reaction to it.
If your brother is unwilling to help, be that financially, practically or emotionally, you cannot force him to.

OP, you need to think carefully. Even if you manage to buy your mum a flat or house, what about the ongoing expenses? Maintenance costs, ground rent and service charge if a leasehold flat, etc. Any property you buy might need some work, which is very expensive.

If you are financially supporting your mum and you get ill or lose your job, you would both be up the creek without a paddle.

You rightly want to see your mum secure and happy, but this plan has all sorts of devils in the detail. What does your mum want to do?