Men and Russell Brand

[CurlewKate]

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

Are you claiming that all women are potentially in danger of being abused by people like Brand? Seriously now ..

I honestly and truly believe that many many men (most?) don’t understand the daily reality of being a woman. Just constantly hassled and harassed, minimised or patronised. Thankfully I haven’t been assaulted, but have met many women who have been . Just ordinary women going about their business. Not ‘sluts’ as some would have us believe.
I wonder if women speak out enough to the men in their lives about this. It’s just something women put up with and endure as part of being female. Apparently now even basic safety and recognition of what being female is is being completely eroded. It’s really tragic.

It’s also important to speak to our daughters about all of this. Instead of keeping quiet out of shame or a desire to minimise it.

@N3philim "Are you claiming that all women are potentially in danger of being abused by people like Brand? Seriously now .."

Well, if you mean are all women potentially in danger of being sexually abused or sexually harassed in the workplace then yes they are. If you mean ate all women potentially in danger of unwanted sexual advances in social situations then yes they are. It you mean are all women potentially in danger of being hassled sexually by strangers in the street then yes they are. Most women are lucky enough not to come across the Big Beasts of the misogynist world like Brand. But we all have to deal with the hyenas every day as we consider when we run, tell our friends where we are when we go on dates, share information about "handsy" co workers and collect our daughters from parties.

Thanks that made it clearer

@N3philim "Thanks that made it clearer"

Glad to hear it. Do you have any ideas on the way forward?

I have answered this question twice, but you ignored my responses and keep asking the same question over and over. Why don’t you enlighten us with your own view?

@N3philim Just checking before I reply- is this your plan?
"Keep raising awareness, put pressure on employers/ companies to follow through with sanctions, teach young people about responsibilities (incl their own).

Yes, though I think I replied to you before then as well

@N3philim How are you going to raise whose awareness? What responsibilities do you want young people to learn about?
I agree with putting pressure on employers and companies. How?

Except that this sounds way beyond conspiracy theorizing and is well inside the territory of paranoia.

It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to convince a credulous audience. I don't accept for one moment that Brand, a semi-intelligent being, believes one word of the utter bilge he's spouted, from the new age nonsense about being a changed man and embracing his spirituality, to the social media dross about conspiracies. The first is to draw a line between himself and his past misdeeds, the second is to suggest they're all out to get him rather than a number of separate women have come forward to make him answerable for the injuries he's inflicted.

In other words, classic DARVO.

Ever since #MeToo he must have been wondering when they were coming for him, and my bet is he's got a good story ready well in advance. It's all pretty clever and pretty devious. And we know these traits are straight out of the abusers' playbook.

There will be other names, that's a given. But it's an entire culture that enables this behaviour, not just one individual. on that point it's a pity it happens to be the Met who are investigating. They are involved in that culture - or at least in enabling it - up to their necks.

I think it’s important to find the right channel to effectively raise awareness as each target group is different. For example: as a teenager our whole class was hauled off to a play and we were deliberately not told what it was going to be about. It turned out to be about sexual abuse and it was incredibly powerful. When it finished we didn’t just leave but the play was followed up by a discussion on the topic and production, and further information on the topic and on how to seek help was provided. There were no stupid sniggers or jokes, but everyone was really touched by the topic and how it had been delivered. It impressed me a lot because we weren’t just “passive” and remote watchers, but instead it felt like we were involved in the plot. There is a film version of the play and it is far less powerful than the theatre version had been.

It probably seems dated now but even during my school days the most common medium was tv/ screen. I think it would be great to get topics like this more “back to reality” instead of just “offloading” one directional advise onto young people.

Another thing. I grew up in a European country where sexes were far less divided compared to countries that have a high number of single sex schools etc. I know that there are reasons for single sex schools, but I still find it a strange concept because growing up alongside girls/ women was just perfectly normal for me. Overall I think it would be beneficial to have mixed sex environments for everyone so you learn from a young age that each sex deserves the same basic respect as the other.

Lastly, I think the most striking thing about the Brand case is not his behaviour and his actions, but that he was enabled and facilitated for such a long time. I very much hope that enablers (in BBC and C4 who were informed about concerns) will be hit with severe punishments to make people realise that their actions have consequences as well

Apologies for the wall of text and typos, I am standing on a moving train

Boys and teenagers might get away with excuses, but if a man is ignorant of the issues then it's deliberate and willful.

I didn't need a workshop or a book to understand how my Dad treated mum was wrong. Judging by letters he wrote to her, he knew too and he chose to do it again and again. I was a 14 yr old boy, a grown man has no excuses. It's a common pattern, and it's enabled or sanctioned by doing nothing. By individuals and institutions as a whole.

Even if Brand isn't guilty of the charges, he is 100% guilty of sanctioning inappropriate behaviour and minimising the impact of it through his "work". It's not just him tho, it's the whole culture he's a part of. I've seen it socially and in the workplace. Btw the man who claims to know consent is on film striping to his underwear and sitting on a woman's lap. Is that okay? How many men here do that at work? If that's consent to him for a relatively minor act I'm a bit worried how it looks to him in more intimate acts

Likewise I knew similarly as I was exposed to other forms of abuse and violence, and my understanding is always improving through conversation and reflection.

Ever since #MeToo he must have been wondering when they were coming for him, and my bet is he's got a good story ready well in advance.

I think that’s why a lot of us weren’t surprised. It’s only a few weeks since the speculation about the identity of the BBC presenter who turned out to be Huw Edwards and Brand was one of the men who popped up to say “It’s not me”.

I agree OP, it was very cowardly of a group of men to stand by and do nothing to prevent this rape and must have been such a shock and betrayal to know they had heard the screams and not intervened.

The guy who apologised years later should step up now but he still isn’t, so he’s as bad now as he was then. His ‘apology’ is ringing hollow as was obviously just to appease his own guilt and he’s not evolved.

I don’t know why some PP are trying to deflect it back on to the woman who was being attacked who has spoken out.

I totally agree.

This is also my experience. I have only been helped by other women, strangers in U.K. and even overseas.

I have also stepped into help other women, again strangers, even though it can be frightening and risky to do so.

Yes there are a number of elements that have been very depressing - men standing by and watching it happen, the aggressive responses that women cannot be believed unless they go to the police (despite it being clear he's been heavily lawyered up for years) and the alt right barrage that he's being silenced because he's telling the truth about the deep state! Rather than recycling paranoid conspiracy nonsense. And let's remember that people like Brand and Alex Jones etc don't care if what they are peddling is true or not. They are feeding their narcissism and nihilism with the purpose of undermining rational evidence based democratic discourse.

I actually think it's really worrying and it feels like 'me too' has lost its power. Would any woman seeing this shit storm and experiencing SA in such an imbalance of power situation ever be encouraged to go to the police? I think not. Have we forgotten how Weinstein used threats, bullying, NDAs and pay offs to silence his accusers? I'm sure many Brand victims have experienced the same treatment. And I'm sure there's many, many more celebs in film, TV and the music industry who have done much the same to women.

What are women learning from this story? Men are sex addicts(their get out of jail free card), women are liars or sluts. This is how it plays out. It makes me so angry.

The bit that really upset me was making jokes (and getting laughs) about blow jobs till they gag and the fact that invariably he spat on women after sex. That's what they really think of women. We are just holes.

Imagine being married to that man. Or his mother.

True. But it was part of his comedy show ( filmed) saying the best blow jobs are where you stick your penis in a bit too far and make her mascara run. Followed by gagging noises.
Hilarious.

What do you think would have happened if an ordinary woman would have gone to the police about this on her own? The majority of rapes that are reported do not result in convictions and even less in charges.

They could end up in court with an order to not 'harass' him.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/sep/11/russell-brand-jemima-khan-masseuse-court-order-harassing

True. But it was part of his comedy show ( filmed) saying the best blow jobs are where you stick your penis in a bit too far and make her mascara run. Followed by gagging noises.

Yep, if you are making a woman gag it is not consensual IMHO.

This article is interesting, especially in the current context, it seemed she tried a few avenues to highlight what happened to her and was silenced. I wonder how these map to what was highlighted in the documentary?

I watched the 'statement' by RB before and again after the documentary. The language he used appeared carefully ambiguous. His "relationships were consensual" is not the same as a denial of acts of sexual and physical assault, grooming of a child, misuse of power his age, status etc.

It's hypocritical how much he and his supporters would want to silence others, ie women, from having a voice in the media.

In many ways I feel the Russell Brand scandal is worse than the Saville saga. Brand's whole persona and gig was based on this pisstaking (mainly at women's expense), humiliating, sexist, vulgar, so called humour. He was elevated to this huge celeb status and applauded and fawned over. He acted like a spoilt brat who could do and say whatever he wanted. Noone in charge called him out. It's not his victims that are to blame but rather the entire celebrity set up where they reach a certain popularity level and effectively become untouchable. The brave women who tried to bring attention must have felt silenced and powerless. We need to stop this attitude of putting celebs on high pedestals. They need to adhere to the same set of rules of all employees/employers. It will keep happening if these narcissistic individuals believe they are untouchable.

He (Brand) may well have a point as to why it is only now that mainstream media are out to 'destroy' him but his rants about the unfairness towards him can't dismiss his despicable past behaviour. It's long overdue in my opinion.

In many ways I feel the Russell Brand scandal is worse than the Saville saga

Seriously? The accusations about Brand are appalling but they don’t include paedophilia. The entire concept of Jim’ll Fix It was designed to deliver potential victims to him in the guise of making their dreams come true. It really doesn’t get any worse than that.

What I meant was that Saville built his persona on being charitable, being the good guy etc. What he did was disgusting and yes many in his circle did turn a blind eye but for the majority it came as a shock when he was exposed. With Brand he never tried to hide it. He became this megastar for being an absolute arsehole. He lived up to it in his public appearances and noone ever questioned it.

Exactly. How is that worse?

I think men think oh well she was a Slag anyway so it justifies it in their minds and they don't get involved . Victim blaming.