Men and Russell Brand

[CurlewKate]

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

Keep raising awareness, put pressure on employers/ companies to follow through with sanctions, teach young people about responsibilities (incl their own).

The most unacceptable thing about this case appears to be how the bbc and c4 enabled and protected Brand’s behaviour.

Jesus Christ! That says it all really.

Basically yes.

No. We can make choices. Slavery used to be just how the world is, for probably all of recorded human history. Now most of the world rejects it. Territorial conquest used to be just how the world is. Now much of the world rejects it.

Allowing violent misogynistic pornography to be legal is a choice. Men not calling out other men's behaviour is a choice. There are a myriad of choices society can make and we as individuals can make to reduce harm to women and attitudes that harm women.

We will never get rid of any type of crime. There will always be murder. But we don't shrug and say 'what can you do?' We make laws, we build prisons, we have a society that roundly condemns murdering people.

We can make choices about how we view women. We won't eliminate men who harm women but we sure can reduce it and change to a society where men who do so are condemned and rejected rather than lauded.

I completely agree with all of that but the question was how can we stop men committing 90% of violence? We can’t. And why would we even want to since that would involve more women committing it? As you so rightly say We will never get rid of any type of crime.

@BIossomtoes "I completely agree with all of that but the question was how can we stop men committing 90% of violence? We can’t. And why would we even want to since that would involve more women committing it?"

You seem to be saying that there is an amount of violence that's fixed in our society-the only variable is who commits it? You're not saying that are you?

So what is anyone supposed to do about it?

The police won't do anything and if they do anything the victim/s will get absolutely slaughtered by the defence in court and will end up having a worse experience than the actual rape.

Then if he is found guilty, he is likely to be let off anyone.

If he does get a sentence, it is likely to be suspended.

If he has a job and loses it [big IF] it is likely he will just move to a different agent/TV station/football club and carry on.

The victims will get no help from rape crisis support as these are now sometimes run by men, or have men working there, or men using them so single sex support is non existent.

The police do not consider 'sex' to be the basis of any hate crimes, let alone crimes because they know that if they did this, they would do nothing other than investigate sex based crimes, and the judges would let them all off anyway so what's the point?

If a man is making any company money they will keep him sweet. That's the crux of it.

No I’m not saying that at all - as well you know, you’re being disingenuous. I’m saying men are inherently more inclined to violence than women. You were the one who introduced the 90% element, not me.

Lmao when you think you've read it all...

"I completely agree with all of that but the question was how can we stop men committing 90% of violence? We can’t. And why would we even want to since that would involve more women committing it?"

FFS. There isn't a set about of violent crime and if men commit less women pick up the slack.

@BIossomtoes "No I’m not saying that at all - as well you know, you’re being disingenuous. I’m saying men are inherently more inclined to violence than women. You were the one who introduced the 90% element, not me"

I honestly don't know-still-what you meant. The 90% ( well, a little more, actually, I'm rounding down) isn't my figure-it's an official statistic.

WhT about all the PEOPLE who turned a blind eye . It wasn't just men was it . That's the question to ask .

OK. I can’t be any clearer. And I still think you’re asking the wrong question. Forget 90% - what can society do to reduce male violence against women? is a much more sensible question.

@BIossomtoes OK, what can society do to reduce male violence against women?

This thread started out about RB. I do think that RB was mainly sponsored by women who found him sexually attractive. Was he ever really funny? Maybe it is just me but his ‘humour’ seems vile, rapey and cringeworthy. I think we as a society need to address why women find people like him attractive.

The elephant in the corner is biology. We are still great apes and a sexually dimorphic species, with bigger, stronger and more aggressive men. Although physical strength has little use these days, evolution hasn’t caught up, and many women are still attracted to large, muscly and aggressively ambiguous men. If that were not the case, why were women throwing themselves at him.

Male aggression is great if it is in favour of defending your tribe or family, less so when the male hasn’t been properly conditioned or can’t control it. That is why we have laws and prisons.

So many on this thread have said males don’t call it out, but there would have been loads of men involved in the making of the documentary and loads of men do call it out. Of course, things could always improve, but the idea that men are laughing when other men commit sexual assault just isn’t true, at least in the circles that I move in.

I think it is fair to say that for Brand, he had a lot female support both in his fans and management. He is obviously toxic to many but a lot of people loved his narrative. Why didn't some people who were responsible for him in these production companies say so? It was obvious that he was a shagger which is the acceptable name for a sexual predator

Yes, so many people must be complicit in this.

And all the repeated sexual jokes about his newsreader on the radio and the Jimmy Saville interview where he offered her naked.
I refuse to believe that there was no listener complaints at all about that (as well as the person in question complaining and being ignored by their seniors...and the complaint made into additional material by Russell Brand)

Apparently there were 44,000 complaints about the Andrew Sachs phone call...but what about the other stuff? We're they waiting for a critical number of complaints before he was deemed appropriately offensive to take any action?

And btw I think we have a women problem here. Look at Beverly Turner and Andrew Pierce on GB News.

Turner calls Brand a hero. Pierce says entirely the opposite.

Brand has got lots of fan girls. They are part of this too

Apparently there were 44,000 complaints about the Andrew Sachs phone call

It didn't do Jonathan Ross OBE any harm either.

I can find rude jokes funny

• if they are funny but I don't understand the tolerance for some of the nasty behaviour that goes on in the name of humour.

Frankie Boyle 'joking' about Katie Prices disabled child (at the time of the 'joke') raping her or what about some

Ricky Gervais joking about drink driving and raping an old lady when he preforming live at Edinbrugh Fringe Festival Independant articlee*

Jimmy Carrs rape jokes

Egs (I've taken these from quotes on the internet so haven't fact checked 100% - there are videos of Jimmy Carr making disgusting rape jokes though)

“My girlfriend can be really loud during sex. I don’t know why—she knows no one’s coming to help.”
“And it’s true, if you’re a rapist, you’ve got pretty much your pick of women.”
“I said to my girlfriend, do you want to role play with a rape fantasy? She said ‘No!’ and I said, ‘That’s the spirit.’”
“‘Rape’ is such a horrible word, though, it’s such a harsh brutal word. That’s why I prefer to call it a ‘Struggle Snuggle.’”

These men are all articulate and intelligent. They know what they are doing but they don't care. Ultimately though it's not them that I have the biggest issue with it's the people and organisations around them that continue to give them airtime and opportunities to continue with their vile behaviour.

Making revolting jokes isn't the same as being a rapist but it all helps fuel a world where men think it ok to abuse women.

"a woman problem"
OK. Is this where I say NAWALT? That's how this sort of discussion usually goes, isn't it?

It is unreasonable to say it's all about men @CurlewKate. Brand has plenty of female support. It was his management in Lesley Douglas for example. It's people like Beverly Turner calling him a hero.

Brand is a sleaze. But this is not all about men. It looks like a mixed picture.

Russell Brand is not wholly a male problem-of course. But misogyny and sexual violence is. I do think it's telling that so many posts on here are not thinking about what men can do about these issues, but finding ways to point fingers at women.

90% of violence, both sexual and non sexual, is committed by men. What can men do about this? What could the overwhelmingly male comedians who must have been aware of Brand's proclivities ( the women were-so the men must have been too) have done about it?

Very few men spoke out with Rubiales too, I picked up on that in both cases. It's frustrating, alongside the "not all men" and "I'm not like that" comments. I'm very keen to post out that that being a decent bloke has 3 parts to it:

• Treating women properly
• Speaking up as much as possible, both when you see others not doing so and in our private "safe" moments free from scrutiny by women. The masks of some men only slips in these moments
• Have conversations with women about these subjects, and listen

I understand why these things are often not reported, from a combination of listening an indirect experience of attempted sexual assaults, both times I was in the house where it happened & luckily friends took action to prevent. It's upsetting to remember, but it's a powerful motivator to brave up, take that second action as often I can. Not looking for praise or whatever, so pls don't. I do it for my own sake, so I can sleep at night

I agree. It's all pretty depressing.

By and large, people don't speak up because of the repercussions for them personally. I understand that. I called out behaviour many years ago (not only sexual misbehaviour but other issues too). Two of us (female, and out of many I know who experienced it) reported sexual harassment on the part of one individual with a huge amount of clout. I felt it was the right thing to do. I know it was the right thing to do. In some ways I am glad to have retained my integrity. But integrity doesn't pay the bills, and my action achieved little other than career suicide for me. Would I do it again? No. We were told by an extremely senior figure, "it wouldn't do to do anything about it", and retribution was swift and merciless.

There were lots of people who could and should have stood up to be counted at the time. They didn't. The person yielding the power holds all the cards. You can't blame people for not wanting to get involved.

My anger is reserved for the enablers - those people in positions of power who know absolutely damn well what is going on, and let it carry on.

What I find incredible, in all of our wokery, Brand's so-called type of comedy hasn't been cancelled years ago.

Bernard Manning wasn't funny either. His brand of comedy is dead in the water - yet it's still acceptable to disparage women in the most disgusting terms?

As a woman, as a human, I think audiences must have pretty sick minds if they find that sort of thing funny. It's vile.

Sexual coercion, rape, misogyny is overwhelmingly coming from men though and that's where the change needs to be, in how men are responding to alleged predators like Brand. They're basically worried about their careers if they speak up.

But I do agree with @bombastix as well to a certain extent that there is a problem with female enablers and it's not just something simplistic like they've always fancied Russell Brand. People like Bev Turner are all part of a growing movement of men and women who are more interested in railing against 'the elite', digital-id, vaccines, 5-minute cities, etc. Much of it is highly conspirational and if any one of their gang is attacked, such as Brand, we're snowflakes for calling it out. Doesn't matter to them if it's covid masks or misogyny, it's all the same kind of concerted MSM attack on their civil liberties. I've been genuinely shocked at some of the threads over the last few days where a lot of women (apparently) just can't see past the argument that this whole situation with Brand is a media set-up and they are repeatedly parroting verbatim their favourite libertarian or GB News commentator. (And the way some have spoken about potential rape victims has been pretty distressing tbqh). I find it pretty alarming and just think there's a wider fight here than just trying to change the way men respond to sexual predators who may be their friend or colleague.