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Original poster

Men and Russell Brand

206 replies

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 07:24

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

OP posts:
Nevermind202020 · 17/09/2023 10:57

PeaceGoodMercutio · 17/09/2023 10:54

Russell Brand gives me the exact same feeling as Jimmy Saville. You just KNOW.

I agree about the feelings, and knowing something wasn't right - I am not sure I was aware just how extensive his vileness was though. I think he almost portrayed some of his behaviour as an 'act', in that the public vileness was portrayed as 'extreme' and surely in real life he was much more 'normal', whereas it turns out it was probably the opposite which was true (in that he was even more vile in private).

Oddearslongnose · 17/09/2023 10:58

PeaceGoodMercutio the problem is you don’t.
This is really part of the issue . Like with RB and JS they both look and behave like lunatics. Their dress sense, their mannerisms… just scream stereotypical sexual abuser. But what’s problematic then is when it’s the lovely teacher , or the kind neighbour who always does little favours. And people can’t believe what’s in front of their eyes because it contradicts everything a sexual abuser would be.

Oddearslongnose · 17/09/2023 10:58

Everything they assumed a sexual abuser would be.

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 11:14

@RocketIceLollie "But you still flatly deny any responsibility as a mum that you have a role to play too"

Of course I don't deny that! But this is about men and what they should be doing to take responsibility for men's behaviour. Women are always expected to take responsibility- it's time men stepped up too.

OP posts:
beachcomber70 · 17/09/2023 11:21

What astounds me is that thousands and thousands of people pay, travel, and flock to shows to listen and laugh to vile mysogynistic depraved talk/'jokes' by weirdo's: weird in appearance, language and behaviours. And they think it's good, clever, funny and enjoyable. Like a lot of sheep without minds of their own nor the ability to discern something disturbing right in front of them.

RB has always appeared as strange to me and to be avoided, as was JS. I do not know why others do not see this. Seriously I don't. He is revolting and arrogant. JS was slimy and to me, creepy. His appearance was off for a start, bit of a clue.

If I was anywhere and didn't like what I saw or heard I'd walk out and never go back...as I have done before at films which I could see as giving a bad message to society and condoning certain behaviours. What bothers me is how the general public is often so gullible when it comes to 'celebrity'. There aren't many I admire. And if I do I'm very aware we never know the back story/real person. I think we've had just a snapshot of RB and his disgusting mind, I'm sure there's a lot, lot more.

ElFupacabra · 17/09/2023 11:23

I actually thought it was really fucking hypocritical of Daniel Sloss. He was a pretty unknown comedian until that clip went viral, the one where he implores other men to speak out about unacceptable behaviour towards women. Where has he been until now? He’s never publicly condemned RB until now, but he can preach to other men about standing up and doing the right thing? Nah, mate.

Nevermind202020 · 17/09/2023 11:27

ElFupacabra · 17/09/2023 11:23

I actually thought it was really fucking hypocritical of Daniel Sloss. He was a pretty unknown comedian until that clip went viral, the one where he implores other men to speak out about unacceptable behaviour towards women. Where has he been until now? He’s never publicly condemned RB until now, but he can preach to other men about standing up and doing the right thing? Nah, mate.

The fact that he doesn't appear to have a large following (yet) means he maybe felt he had less to lose by speaking up.

ohsheglows · 17/09/2023 11:32

What got to me was the part when one of the victims mentioned that she was in a C4 meeting and they were discussing who should host this particular show - RB's name was mentioned and some colleagues mentioned that he had been accused of misconduct. Instead of not employing him - they agreed that they would ensure all women were kept away from him whilst filming, as if it's the women's problem, and not him?! That really upset me and made me think that the corporation really does have some way to go with protecting women!

SnowflakeCity · 17/09/2023 11:38

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:18

@SnowflakeCity Are you saying that all the male comedians on the circuit who saw this happening and did/said nothing were acting out of a wish not to intrude on women's right to self determination? "Well, I would have said something- but that would have been sexist and patronising. I have to respect a woman's right to be terrified and shit scared and let her defend herself from a controlling abuser. Because feminism."

No. I am saying that this shouldn't be a man/woman issue like you seem to think it is. You seem to think we should sit around relying on men to speak up with no onus at all on women. I think that the burden of speaking up should be shared equally. The idea that women are too precious to be expected to speak up needs to die out and the idea that it is none of mens business needs to die out. It is everybody's responsibility, sec has no bearing.

BIossomtoes · 17/09/2023 11:46

I hope the book is thrown at him.

It’s not going to be because, thanks to this weekend’s trial by media, it would be impossible for him to have a fair trial if he was charged.

anotherside · 17/09/2023 11:48

You could as easily argue that the scores of women who slept with him knowing full well his reputation as a bad boy/womaniser were condoning his behaviour, or were in part responsible for when things went too far - ie his alleged abuses. But that would be equally nonsense as saying that random men are responsible. I don’t think the fact that some women are seemingly attracted to the yobbish womanising types of men, be they influential celebs or not - is in any way the fault of decent family men.

Morever, it seems to me that there is a very, very fine line between the playboy cocky arrogant type of men and the man who will be prone to actual emotional/mental/physical abuse. From a woman’s perspective probably just best not to walk that line at all.

anotherside · 17/09/2023 11:52

@SnowflakeCity

The idea that women are too precious to be expected to speak up needs to die out and the idea that it is none of mens business needs to die out

Well said. The type of man who is prone to abuse usually has a violent streak. If his behaviour is challenged by a woman he might react with verbal abuse along with other forms. If challenged by a man he is more likely to react with physical violence along with other forms of payback . So it’s no small matter for either sex to call this type of person out. The vast majority of men don’t spend their free time hanging out with these assholes anymore than women do.

anotherside · 17/09/2023 11:53

“If his behaviour is challenged by a woman he might react with verbal abuse along with other forms. If challenged by a man he is more likely to react with physical violence along with other forms of payback”

Obviously I’m talking about public/work environment scenarios here - not domestic.

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 12:01

"The idea that women are too precious to be expected to speak up needs to die out and the idea that it is none of mens business needs to die out"

I don't think anyone is saying women are too precious to speak out. Women do-and we know what happens to them in real courts and in the court of public opinion. We don't actually know what happens when men call out other men's behaviour-because it hasn't happened yet. The world of comedy is largely male. It is inconceivable that many male comedians didn't know what RB was like.

OP posts:
SnowflakeCity · 17/09/2023 12:22

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 12:01

"The idea that women are too precious to be expected to speak up needs to die out and the idea that it is none of mens business needs to die out"

I don't think anyone is saying women are too precious to speak out. Women do-and we know what happens to them in real courts and in the court of public opinion. We don't actually know what happens when men call out other men's behaviour-because it hasn't happened yet. The world of comedy is largely male. It is inconceivable that many male comedians didn't know what RB was like.

So why are you having a go at anyone that mentions women? And no, in 2023 I don't think it is good enough to say 'we all know what happens when women speak out', the onus is on everybody. Stop making excuses. Women obviously haven't in this case or the silence wouldn't have gone on as long as it did. It is inconceivable that no women knew, just as it is inconceivable that no men did.The onus should be on everybody, no excuses.

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 12:30

@SnowflakeCity "So why are you having a go at anyone that mentions women?"

I don't think I'm having a go at anyone!

OP posts:
SnowflakeCity · 17/09/2023 12:34

OK then why are you going through the whole thread basically saying 'what about the men' when you believe that responsibility should be shared equally? Why even make this thread? It's clear that both men and women knew and both men and women should have spoken out. Both are scared to, that doesn't absolve eithers responsibility.

fiddlesticksandotherwords · 17/09/2023 12:38

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 07:24

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

Not every male comedian would even know this unspeakable turd, so you can't tar all of them with the same brush. Some may have known his 'reputation' but you can't report hearsay without anything concrete to back it up. Maybe some of them did know more so could speak out, and that's how it has now come to light. Some people must have known enough, otherwise this investigation would never have taken place.

topnoddy · 17/09/2023 12:59

N3philim · 17/09/2023 08:24

What does VAWG stand for?

JWWNABA innit !

topnoddy · 17/09/2023 13:20

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 07:24

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

What every single male comedian in the world knew about RB and what he was allegedly doing ?

That's pushing it a bit I'd say

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 13:26

@topnoddy "What every single male comedian in the world knew about RB and what he was allegedly doing ?"

Well, maybe not every male comedian! But it looks as if practically every mumsnetter did-so it's reasonable to assume it was pretty widely known about in the reasonably small world of comedy!

OP posts:
rwalker · 17/09/2023 13:30

I don’t think we can just blame men for this women working in that circle knew about him and warned each other

Totaly · 17/09/2023 13:33

I’m not sure they are turning a blind eye - if the woman don’t report it for fear of not being believed or the trauma of a court case and invasive medical testing - then the process is wrong.

Those men who heard screams should absolutely have done something - but again they only heard screams which could’ve been brushed of as a row -

Corporations need evidence, there should be a way of reporting concerns to build a picture about behaviour rather than all in or all out.

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 13:37

It's not just this incident, though. Men are responsible for the vast,vast majority of violence and sexual assault/harassment. And men rarely seem to speak out about it.....

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 17/09/2023 13:50

@CurlewKate ,

Your general point is probably true, though more nuanced than you think it is (IMO).

However, you have chosen a really bad example. RB had (and still has) women desperate to be within the orbit of his golden dick. He had women effectively pimping for him and older senior women promoting him on their shows. They loved his ‘shagger of the year’ accolade, as that just drew in more viewers, and his ‘edgy’ routine.

Why young women are drawn to this type of person (and they are) is a more complex question and we could argue about whether it is biology or a deeper patriarchal conditioning (or a combination of the two).

However, superficially, he has been sustained and facilitated by a female following for years.