Men and Russell Brand

[CurlewKate]

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel?

To be fair to Sloss, he's actually been calling out male protection of predators for years now and often included it at the end of his stand-up, not specifically Brand. IIRC correctly one of his friend's raped a mutual friend. I'm sure there will be some shows on youtube.

Russell Brand is, at best, a vile misogynist with the lowest denominator of male humour. I would have thought the 2008 Sachsgate saga gave an insight into his woman hating mentality and generally offensive personality. His podcast is also on an alt-right platform and he pushes conspiracy theories. What's not to like!

I namechanged because i get this will likely be inflammatory due to recent events in which i do feel like RB has acted abhorrent.

But why is it the job of innocent men? I can't remember the exact incident but I remember a few weeks ago someone came on here and said she was talking to her male friend who had confided he was getting abused by his wife and the thread which I believe had 100s of comments with many amounting to the fact its not womens place to help men with their issues and its down to men to start charities etc to help other men.

Now whenever there's a high profile case of a man doing something wrong people say it's other mens responsibility to help stop these things from happening. Surely it should be spearheaded by women to continue to campaign for legislative and procedural change to help better legal outcomes, commit to further research in ways of tackling violence and against women and all sorts.

We all know that women do this anyway and I'm not blind to that but it seems too basic and in a sense seems a way of handing off the issue just to say men have to take action as I don't feel its likely those monsters that do these awful acts are parading the fact they are gonna do the act before/ after they do it. Obviously if men are aware that somethings happening my first instinct is to say then of course they should speak up about it but I've also seen advice on here by posters suggesting to others to not say stuff incase it makes it worse for the victim.

There isn’t really any motivation for men to speak up against predatory men.

The last few years has seen a large movement (liberal feminism) that’s told them “don’t you worry mate, you keep watching the violent porn, starring trafficked women with low life expectancies, with varied “work” inflicted injuries. You keep hiring women to use them for sex, like objects, keep sharing their images on SM calling them “fuckdolls” and worse. We’ve got your backs, we know that you’re men and you need this outlet”

There are a few decent men who stand up for women regardless (Graham Linehan springs to mind), but unless they do it in the right way they’re demonised.

When it comes to VAWG I cannot see how large numbers of men will ever stand up, because they’re conditioned to view it as ok. Hence large numbers of men and women right now defending RB. Rules of misogyny in action. This is the direct result of years of allowing men to increasingly enjoy objectifying women on a subhuman level just to get their jollies. Men is absolutely the issue here. It’s not helped by the increasingly low bar set for them though.

@BanjoMango "Surely it should be spearheaded by women to continue to campaign for legislative and procedural change to help better legal outcomes, commit to further research in ways of tackling violence and against women and all sorts. "

Could you say more about this? I don't understand why it should be spearheaded by women?

Because why should women have to fix it?
It’s a male led problem. I mentioned liberal feminism above - no prizes for guessing why it’s the most accepted feminist movement! Because it centres men and sets a low bar for their behaviour.
Radical feminism is railed against by so many men because we actually expect better of them. They’re humans, not animals. We expect a level of humanity of men, and are often left disappointed.

I don’t believe this is something that will be resolved until a point where more women are rejecting porn use, prostitution, until more women have much higher standards of acceptable behaviour (and I believe this may well happen - I think there’s already a movement in S Korea?).

In the meantime men are better placed to call it out. They’re not in a position of being seen as objects or subhuman. They could make a difference. I suspect it won’t happen though because they benefit from this current system.

It there's lots of evidence against him as well as text messages he himself sent

It's interesting looking at old Mumsnet threads about RB - some of the comments are awful. Women acknowledge that he was sleazy but still saying they would love to sleep with him. Dozens and dozens of them.

He's always been open about using prostitutes and being promiscuous but that didn't seem to put women off. So not sure it's just men to blame. I think it's more to do with a wider issue.
Women were fueling his ego and sense of entitlement.

Obviously being promiscuous is very, very different to being a rapist.

"But why is it the job of innocent men?"

I suppose it depends what you mean by "innocent men?" It seems to be accepted on here that all men watch porn, for example. Unless he has gone to great lengths to make sure he is only watching "ethically sourced" porn, surely he's no longer an innocent man, but is part of the problem?

I guess the first point is to address my first point that when men have a problem they are told its not womens place to sort it out for them and so I feel logically the same should apply.

On a potentially more mature level rape/ domestic violence are crimes that overwhelmingly have women/female victims and have therefore the greater insight into benefits/ failures of current processes so are best placed to make alterations that they feel will lead to better comfort and support victims whilst also getting better legal outcomes.

I feel for many victims a male presence soon after the offence has occurred could lead to unease ( i know i felt uncomfortable after i was assaulted )and lower conviction rates although you can't blame the victims for that.

In an ideal world where budget wasn't a concern I would like a think tank of women who are well versed in the topic to create different procedures strategies on how to handle recreations of different kinds of offences with differing variables such as all men/ women/ combination investigation teams, prosecutors, jury's and see the difference in outcomes but it would also need a lot more thoughts.

I feel like if people feel that the men that are taking part in these issues have conscious/ subconscious biases then the best course of action is to remove them and allocate resources to those more emotionally invested in its success.

A pretty terrrible one, if it's true.

Everyone is responsible for calling out/reporting bad behaviour , I think it's the people who are on the receiving end of hearing the reports that also need to be held accountable if they do nothing with the information.

Women always threw themselves at Brand. Men like that play on the bad boy image to get women..

Have I missed the part where all these journalists took their iron clad evidence to the police as part of their humanitarian mission to expose Brand?

As opposed to getting paid for producing weird ghat won't see these women receiving the justice they deserve?

"I guess the first point is to address my first point that when men have a problem they are told its not womens place to sort it out for them and so I feel logically the same should apply."

It there was something bad that happened in the world that over 90% of times was done by women, I'd sure as hell expect women to sort it out!

That taxi driver who begged that 16 year old not to go to RB's house is a hero. But he shouldn't be a hero. He should just be a bog standard man doing what bog standard men do. But they don't. And that's how men like RB get away with it. Its not just famous men. Its the arsehole man in the pub, the club, the workplace, your friendship group. The one no-one calls out. The one people laugh along with.
Of all the times I was hassled by men when I was younger, not once did a man call the harassing man's behaviour out. The only time anyone stood up for me or tried to help me, it was other women. Never a man.

No just your mates, or the men you see being dicks to women when you are out, in pubs, or the men shouting sexist comments to women in the street, or hassling women as they just walk about minding their own business.

That's what you need to do. Do you do that?

It there was something bad that happened in the world that over 90% of times was done by women, I'd sure as hell expect women to sort it out!

Exactly. Although it's mind blowing that this has needed to be spelled out.

@JunkShopper "I'm so sorry. I promise to try harder in my duty to police the behaviour of every single male person on Earth in future."

No need to do that. Just your own behaviour. And that of the men in your circle. That'll do nicely.

@brightdayloomingdark ,

But what about all the women laughing with him as he mimed sexual abuse of other women? They not only didn’t call him out but, effectively, sponsored him to continue with the revenue and publicity they provided. His audiences were predominantly female.

If ‘men’ bear responsibility, why don’t they?

Or the female senior execs who wanted him to host the BB spin-off, despite knowing that he was a risk to women? No responsibility?

My late mother who was a feminist in the 50s and 60s would have been very scathing of this thread. Her and her generation campaigned for equality, equality of rights and equality of responsibilities.

She would have hated the casting of all women as victims ( and, to be clear, I am not talking of his alleged victims, but all the women who knowingly facilitated his access to other young women) and all men as abusers, even second hand.

@Newbutoldfather "My late mother who was a feminist in the 50s and 60s would have been very scathing of this thread. Her and her generation campaigned for equality, equality of rights and equality of responsibilities"

I am a little younger than your mother-but I am prepared to bet that she, as I am, would be utterly horrified to discover that VAWG is still as endemic in society as it was when she was a fresh faced young women's libber. And she would, I am sure, would be expecting men to be raising their consciousnesses and take responsibility for their collective actions.

And yes-it goes without saying that women can be shit too. Just because a woman makes a choice does not make it a feminist choice.

Me too. I was sexually assaulted (not by anyone famous). I went to the police. It was horrific and I never would do it again.