Men and Russell Brand

[CurlewKate]

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

This has made me think of something Irvine Welsh said on TV this morning, something along the lines of 'we all have in our friendship groups a woman who we know has been sexually assaulted, but not many friendship groups include a known rapist or rape apologist - we don't tend to know that about our mates, they hide it'. It's a very good point when talking about pulling up male friends for bad behaviour, they don't tend to show that side of themselves to everyone.

@ElFupacabra Yeah the cynic in me thinks he's jumping on the bandwagon to raise his own profile. I have actually met him, he was pretty unpleasant and stroppy to his (female) PA but then immediately turned on the charm in front of the media.

As for RB, the people who should've called out the behaviour were those with decision making power who were hiring him. I imagine it would've been pretty hard for others (male or female) around him who didn't call the shots to speak out, especially without having solid evidence. They'd have been at risk of jeopardising their own livelihoods and/or being sued.

I have seen apologists for Jeffrey dahmer and Ed kemper loads on reddit, never once seen an apologist or sympathetic post for rose west or myra Hindley. It's sick out there.

People excusing kemper because his mother was "abusive" for trying to keep him away from her daughters (he had already killed his grandparents), apparently him coming into her room at night and wanting to "talk" all night was abusive . The evidence of her being abusive all comes from him AFAIK. I think it's a lost cause tbh.

It was insanely obvious brand was a sexually incontinent dick head. It's not because of his conspiracy views, because even those are watered down, safe for YouTube bollocks, anyone in that vein with anything worth listening to were banned in the corona cull.

I think the whole question is wider as in what do we as a society ie men and women, deem ‘acceptable’ behaviour. Why are there men who still think it’s acceptable to take advantage of women who have had too much to drink, are vulnerable or young? Why do so many young girls think it is a good idea at the time, to have relationships with these men- and what does that say about our society?

RB isn’t some sort of demon, alone in his depravity. There are many, many men who have behaved/will behave just as vilely as he did. The whole question isn’t about RB, it’s about building a society where this sort of behaviour is no longer acceptable. Where women and men are conditioned to speak out, rather than ignore.

Schools now teach their students about consent, boundaries, respect and appropriate relationships, so maybe the next generation will lead the way.

I noticed last night that Bob Geldof called RB out at the awards ceremony, I know that Lee Mack refused to appear on the same bill as RB, along with others. Are we sure that

Yep. The victim’s testimony in which she says a man who heard her screaming as she was (allegedly*) raped by Brand apologised to her afterwards for doing nothing has really got to me. He then wouldn’t speak to the Times.

She said he said he was scared of Russell Brand. No you weren't, in any physical sense, you were scared for your career etc.

I think SO many men don’t stand up themselves and challenge other men. It made me sick to hear all the laughter in those clips of RB doing his ‘comedy’ act making really disgusting remarks about women. Other women laughing along too.
We need to think about what is really funny and what he tow just disgusting and crude and misogynistic.

Of course they should. But my post was about the fact that I have never in my life encountered a man challenging this behaviour from men, but I have seen women calling out this behaviour, as it happens, to defend other women, including women they don’t know. Not all women, no, but some and more than men ( of whom I’ve seen zero call it out) There are very, very few men who intervene. So few I have never seen this happen in my five decades of life.
If men routinely called out their mates this behaviour would stop.
It probably wouldn’t stop if women were calling it out every time. Because the men doing this shit don’t care what we think but do care about their standing with their mates.

So how you got from my post to ‘yeah but women laugh too!’ , I don’t know. But the fact you did suggests you are more interested in blaming women for the status quo than beginning to challenge other men.

I understand your point, but personally I am never surprised.
What men do never surprises me.
A close friend at primary school was arrested and convicted for having vast amounts of child pornography.
Knowing him, a "nice quiet" boy; was I surprised? No.
I'm surprised when a man is completely unpredatory and unproblematic.
That's how low the bar is.

I find it really Interesting that it’s taken this for women’s charities to cut ties with Brand.
Trevi (a charity helping women affected by violence and abuse) announced their position only today . But what did they think before this? Did they think it was ok for a man to openly make jokes like the mascara/ blow job one?
Did they simply ignore the stories about the prostitute in Istanbul? Why would they think it was acceptable at all to have him involved in the first place? Did they ignore his entire tv persona previously because the money was coming in?
Money talks but even when these allegations weren’t there, it was crystal clear that RB was someone who should have no affiliation with any charity supporting vulnerable women, ever.
What a slap in the face for victims of sexual violence to watch the type of ‘comedy’ presented for years in the stand up shows, and know he’s the face of a charity meant to be supporting you.

Schools now teach their students about consent, boundaries, respect and appropriate relationships, so maybe the next generation will lead the way

Whilst those boys, and a good proportion of the girls, are wanking to online porn of women being degraded, hurt, abused and crying, I really don’t think that will happen. The power of the message they get about women from porn cannot be countered by a couple of lessons on ‘respect’. Especially when delivered by sex positivist, queer theory infused, unregulated contractors.

That’s been my experience too, except once when the man who stepped in expected sexual favours in return.

I'm a man an I've never liked RB.

He's a creepy weirdo

I’m a man and always speak out - whether it’s an issue where a fellow man has been up to no good and should be outed / dealt with, but I’ll also speak out against women when they trot out the usual ‘all men are as bad as each other’ nonsense on here and other communities.

There's always a 'but' isn't there.

"trot out the usual"

Bore off.

I don’t think I will be popular for stating this, but you will never have a society which is “perfect” as per some theoretical ideal.
I am pretty sure that most of us do not head out deliberately to seek drunk and incapacitated women. Most of these encounters happen when both parties are intoxicated, which is why it’s so difficult to prove situations either way.

I also don’t think that there is a simple explanation why some women of all ages are drawn to men who clearly have no interest in their well-being. As much as you want an ideal society where people all stick to all the rules …it will never happen because we are human and base urges will overwrite reason at times.

I have certainly made decisions that were more based on impulse and desire rather than reason, as will everyone else who is posting here. That does not mean that I am condoning or celebrating behaviour like Brand’s though. I didn’t finish watching the documentary because it became so repetitive, but bottom line is that he is/ was someone who clearly does not have his impulses under control at all, which is why he poses danger to women in particular.

@N3philim "As much as you want an ideal society where people all stick to all the rules …it will never happen because we are human and base urges will overwrite reason at times."

So why,in your opinion, is more than 90% of violence, both sexual and otherwise, committed by men? And what should we be doing about it?

The thing is he played up the lecherous over sexed image because it’s what made him gain notoriety. People ( men and women) went to his comedy shows and laughed at the repulsive things he was saying. We need to look at why our society thinks it’s funny to make ‘jokes’ like he does. They make these jokes because people attend their shows and buy their books on the back of it. If no one actually says this is is unacceptable and not funny, it escalates. I was at a comedy club in a big city recently. It’s not my thing but I was bought tickets by someone else. I found a lot of the humour uncomfortable and I didn’t enjoy it. There were two women in the front row opposite me who were clearly not enjoying it at all, yet why were they there and why didn’t they walk out? People are terrified of being thought to be prudes or have no sense of humour.

Men need to stop making vulgar jokes about women to each other too. It’s all part of the same mind set. Women are just there to satisfy men and their feelings don’t matter. I had an arguement with OH last night about this. He has reported conversations with other men in which they openly lech at women ( often much younger). Comment about their bodies etc. One openly admits using prostitutes. I said if he doesn’t say something to these men, it makes him complicit, even if he doesn’t participate in the conversation. I have had a Dean of a Cathedral making disgusting remarks to me about women, as well as a retired Vicar! If these supposed pillars of society behave in such a way, what hope is there? Is a cultural norm for men to behave like this. Everyone needs to stand up to it and speak out.

The cause is largely biological, so it will always be an issue. We can’t forget that humans are still animals after all. I think the western world has made huge strides in the last decades when it comes to awareness and gender equality, and this trend is continuing. I think it’s counter productive to pit sexes against each other though, because more can be achieved collaboratively.

@N3philim "I think it’s counter productive to pit sexes against each other though, because more can be achieved collaboratively."

So what do you suggest we do collaboratively to counteract the fact that over 90% of sexual and other violence is committed by men?

Brand is horrible but the point is that he didn't hide it. That was part of the act but it was real. Yes people laughed and he was very very popular.

What you have to think about that there was a whole stream of society that liked this. The documentary by Channel 4 reminds people that actually, he was vile about women. Obviously.

If we want a better society yes, let's all speak out. But while we elevate Brand, or people like him, then the real message is just the opposite.

Now he is a guru. Guess what, still elevating himself and telling you what a good man he is. Except again, it's deception and obvious deception. This guy is narcissistic and obviously so. He lets you know all the time how important he is. All the time.

Brand as an abuser but he looks textbook. Many people will have avoided him because he concerned them. The better thing is to say, look, this is what men like this do, say, they will be very very charismatic, they will joke about explicit things to break down boundaries, which is something Brand did to his audience as well as individual women.

I think this thread would have been more useful had it addressed reasons why someone could continue their inappropriate and uncontrolled behaviour for such a long time without trying to start a battle of the sexes.

@N3philim "I think this thread would have been more useful had it addressed reasons why someone could continue their inappropriate and uncontrolled behaviour for such a long time without trying to start a battle of the sexes."

Fair enough. How do you think we should move forward?

He's on trial now in the court of social media. No evidence is actually needed. He's guilty of whatever it was.

So what do you suggest we do collaboratively to counteract the fact that over 90% of sexual and other violence is committed by men?

What can “we” do? There will always be violence in the world.

@BIossomtoes So we just live with it. Men commit over 90% of the violence in our society- that's just how it is?