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Original poster

Men and Russell Brand

206 replies

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 07:24

The whole Russell Brand thing just just puts a spotlight on what's happening about VAWG generally. Men are not speaking out. Men knew it was happening and did absolutely nothing. Every male comedian we laugh at and buy tickets for us complicit in this whole shit show. Part of the problem. And it's the same in society at large. Men need to step up and say "We're not having this-it reflects badly on all of us." Daniel Sloss is obviously an honourable-ish exception, although where were you last year, or the year before, Daniel? Let's stop thinking of this as something women have to fix.

OP posts:
SnorkeMor · 17/09/2023 09:31

I can well imagine RB feeling like an innocent victim right now, because too many men are set up from a young age to treat women like subhumans, are supported to behave like this, and have their proclivities dismissed routinely by men and an unfortunately large number of women.

RB is in the limelight now, but the problem runs far deeper than this.

Bluewitch · 17/09/2023 09:33

I should have added that I think Dispatches knew they had him with the Saville
conversation because they can then argue that the programme was made to avoid another cover up by a TV network...

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 09:39

It's interesting that there is a gradual build of "ah, but what about the women?" on this thread. People find it very hard to accept that abusers' male coworkers need to start stepping up. The comedy world is depressingly silent. Daniel Sloss and Stuart Goldsmith are the only ones I have seen speaking out. I may have missed many others...

OP posts:
SnowflakeCity · 17/09/2023 10:08

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 09:39

It's interesting that there is a gradual build of "ah, but what about the women?" on this thread. People find it very hard to accept that abusers' male coworkers need to start stepping up. The comedy world is depressingly silent. Daniel Sloss and Stuart Goldsmith are the only ones I have seen speaking out. I may have missed many others...

You can think that everyone needs to step up. Some women don't like the idea of relying on men to do what they should be doing. Personally I don't think it's OK for men or women to stand by and watch shit happening. If you think sitting back and deferring to men is the right thing then that's great but I don't think it is 'interesting' that in 2023 lots of women don't think that way.

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:12

@SnowflakeCity "If you think sitting back and deferring to men is the right thing then that's great but I don't think it is 'interesting' that in 2023 lots of women don't think that way."

Eh? WTF do you mean?

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RocketIceLollie · 17/09/2023 10:14

Yeah it would be good to have some high profile mem calling out RB on this. Getting to the root of this issue though surely us mum's also have a responsibility to raise our son's better too though to respect woman's consent etc.

NonMiDispiace · 17/09/2023 10:16

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 08:55

VAWG is Violence Against Women And Girls.
Which is an issue men should be addressing. The RB situation highlights how much they don't.

But men won’t will they? They enjoy sickening porn, probably get off on reading what this revolting individual has been doing and there will be many men who will wish they were like him with some women throwing themselves at him.
I am very cynical, I learned long ago never to trust any man, given the chance I’m sure many more would behave like him.

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 17/09/2023 10:16

I think everyone needs to step up and declare this kind of behaviour unacceptable, men and women.

It is unacceptable and disgusting. I am happy that it now is called out. I hope that everyone who turned a blind eye also gets implicated in this.

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:18

@SnowflakeCity Are you saying that all the male comedians on the circuit who saw this happening and did/said nothing were acting out of a wish not to intrude on women's right to self determination? "Well, I would have said something- but that would have been sexist and patronising. I have to respect a woman's right to be terrified and shit scared and let her defend herself from a controlling abuser. Because feminism."

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Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:19

@RocketIceLollie "Getting to the root of this issue though surely us mum's also have a responsibility to raise our son's better too though to respect woman's consent etc."

What about their dads?

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Twoboys2023 · 17/09/2023 10:22

I’ve lost respect for a good friend who defended him saying nothing has been proven yet. A man, of course. A man who listened what RB had to say in his defence but didn’t read the Times article where the women gave their horrifying accounts. And for everyone saying it’s trial by media, well what else can we do when the police hardly do anything? It’s hard to prove and even harder when they’re a public figure. Plus the lengths the papers and channel would have gone to in order to avoid legal repercussions would be huge. There’s no way it can be false. Honestly, I don’t think I can take this friend seriously again. I’ve lost all patience with his defence of men who have done reprehensible things. This is exactly why women are so angry.

RocketIceLollie · 17/09/2023 10:24

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:19

@RocketIceLollie "Getting to the root of this issue though surely us mum's also have a responsibility to raise our son's better too though to respect woman's consent etc."

What about their dads?

Of course, but do you not also agree it should be both parents job to raise sons properly? Even more so for the many sons with no Dad's in their lives?

UndercoverCop · 17/09/2023 10:26

No one is responsible for his behaviour other than him.
Not what about the victims, what about the witnesses, what about the bystanders.
HE is the only one responsible for the horrific things he has allegedly done to those women and girls and probably many others.
We need a huge societal shift, so celebrity isn't the trump card it is and so those less powerful in any situation are empowered to speak out.

I don't blame male comedians generally, just like I don't blame female comics with WhatsApp groups warning each other for not speaking out not publicly.

I think if official channels with employers or law enforcement were used to report and no action was taken that also needs looking at, because those organisations have a duty of care.

However the person responsible is the one who committed those acts.

Newbutoldfather · 17/09/2023 10:26

@CurlewKate ,

If male comedians knew that this was happening, they should have spoken out….no question.

However, why don’t you think that the mainly female audiences laughing at his rapey (to put it mildly) ‘jokes’ and paying to see his misogynistic shtick bear any responsibility?

And what about the female executives in Endemol who knew he was ‘problematic’ but wanted him to front shows anyway?

This whole issue raises questions about how, as a society, we respond to a good looking, arguably charismatic (can’t stand him myself), man who can raise ratings but is a total narcissist and misogynist.

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:27

@RocketIceLollie But your FiRST thought was that it's up to women. "Oh, yes, of course-men too."

OP posts:
Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:32

"Yes,yes,yes-the men were a bit shit. But let's go back to the real culprits- WOMEN!!"

OP posts:
N3philim · 17/09/2023 10:34

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:32

"Yes,yes,yes-the men were a bit shit. But let's go back to the real culprits- WOMEN!!"

Why do you need to single out one sex? Surely anyone, no matter their sex, should have acted if they had witnessed inappropriate behaviour?

Newbutoldfather · 17/09/2023 10:36

@CurlewKate ,

Why are you obsessed with blaming one sex, rather than looking at the broader problem?

Cotonsugar · 17/09/2023 10:42

siriusblackcat · 17/09/2023 08:53

I actually had to stop watching it. I felt sick.

I felt the same 🙁

Original poster
CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:49

@Newbutoldfather
Why are you obsessed with blaming one sex, rather than looking at the broader problem?

Because it isn't a "broader problem". It's a problem with the way some men behave and the way even more men collude. It's a man problem.

OP posts:
Oddearslongnose · 17/09/2023 10:50

ime there is no difference between men and women when it comes to protecting abusers. People generally try to work in a way that benefits their own progression, and avoid situations which will cause them uncomfortable conflict.
When I disclosed a serious (very) accusation about an ex to a select few people around me that I loved and trusted , one, ONLY ONE, made the decision not to employ him for further work in their homes (tradesman). For the rest, the option of getting a cheaper tiling job/ discount for cash was too appealing.
I’d made the disclosure only because it was absolutely necessary, I had to ensure personal information about my movements and life were not shared with this dangerous individual. The ones who thought they were supporting me would ask my permission ‘would you be offended if I still had him in to fit my carpets, it’s just a bit cheaper?, I’m pretty skint right now’.
I’d just nod and smile and agree then cut them from my life like a lead balloon, see ya!
These people didn’t seem to realise that by employing him they were promoting him as a safe and trustworthy individual to others, therefore discrediting my account , not to mention empowering him financially (and in cash also). It’s quite simple, you either don’t believe my version of events or you think that violence and abuse is ok. Which is it ? And why would I want a friend who believes either?

Nevermind202020 · 17/09/2023 10:52

siriusblackcat · 17/09/2023 08:53

I actually had to stop watching it. I felt sick.

I watched it all, but when I woke up at 1.30 am this morning* I couldn't get the vileness of the whole situation out of my mind - not just the vileness of him and people like him, but the enablers and the whole widespread societal acceptance of things like this. I really hope this brings change, but in all honesty how much
change have other cases like this brought?

*I often wake up in the middle of the night, but it tends to be random things I think about.

PeaceGoodMercutio · 17/09/2023 10:54

Russell Brand gives me the exact same feeling as Jimmy Saville. You just KNOW.

RocketIceLollie · 17/09/2023 10:54

CurlewKate · 17/09/2023 10:27

@RocketIceLollie But your FiRST thought was that it's up to women. "Oh, yes, of course-men too."

Well it's a mum's forum so yeah of course I was putting some emphasis on us as mums. But you still flatly deny any responsibility as a mum that you have a role to play too...think I've just weeded you out for just another MN men bashing thread to be honest.

User135644 · 17/09/2023 10:55

A lot of celebrities and famous people are wrong 'uns with personality disorders, addictions, malignant narcissism or general deviancy.

Brand covers most if not all of them.