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Original poster

Selling parents home for care fees

195 replies

year12clueless · 30/08/2023 11:12

I need some quick advice- both moral and legal.

I've been largely estranged from my parents for years. Occasional visits if I'm in the area (several hundred mikes from where I live now) and phone calls at Xmas etc. They're fine with this as am I.

They have a 4 bed house somewhere nice. For the past 36 years they have had their friend "Bob" living with them. He moved in when I was a teenager as he was apparently struggling to find somewhere to live. Honestly it was a very strange set up (everyone, including my parents had their own bedroom) and Bob is a little peculiar. However the three of them have lived together happily. Bob is a big reason for the estrangement between us- we never got on, he was sometimes very unpleasant to me (verbally) and my parents never defended me. Honestly they've been happier just the 3 of them.

Mum is now in hospice care and not expected to last much longer. Dad and Bob have been visiting her daily and after a recent visit the hospice called adult protective services. They visited the house and found it in a reasonable condition (Bob was very house proud!) but identified that my Dad's care needs were such that Bob couldn't look after him alone any more. Turns out Dads dementia is bad (this was hidden from me) and Bob had a slight stroke meaning he can't lift or manage dad who is doubly incontinent etc.

I've now been told that the best solution for dad will be a care home.

The issue- apparently the house will need to be sold to fund this. However this will leave Bob homeless. He hasn't even got the full state pension as he never really found a job he liked. He's about 10 years younger than dad and apart from weakness from the stroke he's healthy.

I have seen my parents will. They left the house to me but Bob has the right to stay in it until he dies. However they didn't think about this situation. Bob has never paid any rent or anything so there's not even a rental contract.

Honestly I dislike Bob intensely. However I can't see him homeless. But I'm not sure what the legal position is. I've spoken to the council who refused to consider him in their calculations and just kept telling me the house should be sold.

-I need to not upset mum in her final weeks

  • do the best thing for dad (care home)
  • hold my nose and try to help Bob

Does anyone know what the legal situation is with regard to Bob? I can't really afford a solicitor ATM and whilst mum and dad have money I can't access it (Bob can though as he's got their bank card!)

I spoke to Age Uk and the woman said this was new to her (!) and she'd speak to someone and call me back but they haven't. All this will take time to set up and so I need to start making decisions now.

Has anyone got any information or advice?

OP posts:
GreyCarpet · 30/08/2023 11:19

It's going to sound harsh but Bob is responsible for himself. He has lived rent free in your parents house for years and it was their right to permit this but he has no legal right to continue living there and has been very foolish in not considering how a situation like this would impact him.

If you had the time and capacity to do so, you could help him find a room in a shared house/one bedroomed flat. If you were feeling generous then you could stump up for a deposit and first months rent but, beyond that, he's his own responsibility.

But, in reality he needs to present himself to the council as homeless (because he is or will be) and they will house him somewhere.

He could have been working and saving all these years and be in a good position but he has chosen not to and so he isn't.

tescocreditcard · 30/08/2023 11:19

If the council are going to disregard non and sell the home then that's what will happen. It won't be you making bob leave it will be them but they will still have to find somewhere for him to live. Sorry for your troubles.

Idrankyourbananamilk · 30/08/2023 11:23

The bank need to cancel that bank card for starters I would think. I’d report it stolen if you can.

With regards to the house sale, he isn’t a relative over 60 or a disabled relative, a spouse, partner or a child so the care home will view the house as an asset to be sold to fund the care. Legally, I think Bob is a lodger, so actually he has very few rights. I think legally you can effectively just ask him to move out or change the locks on him.

Morally, I don’t know what I’d do. The council won’t touch him until he’s officially homeless. If he refuses to move out you’d have to do something drastic like change the locks and put his stuff out, but I’d find that awful as I’m sure would you from the tone of your post.

See if you can get a free solicitor consultation? Some of them do an hour free. I don’t think legally Bob has much recourse, he only has right to remain if the house still belongs to your parents when they both die and it doesn’t sound like that will be the case here.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Care homes Dementia & alzheimer's Family law General money
Idrankyourbananamilk · 30/08/2023 11:24

Sorry OP. I think you are a tough place and legally you probably know your rights but are struggling with the moral aspect of it, being a good person.

AromanticSpices · 30/08/2023 11:26

Does Bob have any income? Surely he's in a good position having had free rent for 36 years?!

He's not your responsibility. He, or your parents, should have planned for this.

Sorry you are caught up in this. It looks like the Council aren't giving you any choice, though.

Paq · 30/08/2023 11:27

The council will rehome Bob. You don't know anything about his circumstances. He could have squillions in the bank as far as you know.

GreyCarpet · 30/08/2023 11:32

I missed the bit about him having a bank card! You need to put a stop to that somehow. He could clear the lot if he feels his security is threatened. Thats quite concerning.

Original poster
year12clueless · 30/08/2023 11:32

Oh dear. I was fearing this. I was hoping for some little known sort of common law lodger/ moocher type law.

My other concern is that Bob will keep saying he can look after Dad so he can stay in the home. The review says he can't (but did suggest in home care but as a very short term measure).

I won't give him any of my money (not that i have any!) Legally I don't know what to do about mum and dads money. Presuming I can't access it and gift him the cash for a flat? This would hurt- meaning he'd get a flat and once again I'd get nothing but frankly it would be par for the course. (When we were less estranged they missed my graduation as Bob didn't get a ticket (I was only allocated 2) and he was unwell on the actual day.

My parents would be so upset to think of him homeless though and for some reason I'm very much struggling with this.

OP posts:
GreyCarpet · 30/08/2023 11:33

Bob is an adult. You are not responsible for him. In any way.

Threegreenbirds · 30/08/2023 11:33

Sounds a really odd arrangement. Bob is not your problem. He is an adult. What amazing luck he's had living rent free but it's now time he sorted himself out. You have no choice other than selling the house.

Also put a stop on your parents account if you can.

Original poster
year12clueless · 30/08/2023 11:35

I can almost guarantee Bob has no money. His failure to even try to work meant that he didn't qualify for benefits. I believe he tried for disability due to anxiety etc but I'm presuming he didn't get it as frankly he's a lazy bum and I don't think that's a disability

OP posts:
AromanticSpices · 30/08/2023 11:36

Your priority* needs to be restricting his access to your parents' money before it turns nasty. Hopefully other posters will have advice on this?

*. Obviously as well as coming to terms with your mum's situation. Flowers

DisforDarkChocolate · 30/08/2023 11:37

Bob needs to set himself out. He's using their bank card, that needs to be your first action.

punnetofcherries · 30/08/2023 11:39

Has Bob got power of attorney?

Or do you?

If not, then you need to get that into motion if your mum or dad still can understand what they're signing for

Candleabra · 30/08/2023 11:40

GreyCarpet · 30/08/2023 11:33

Bob is an adult. You are not responsible for him. In any way.

This. Stop all thoughts of helping him out, or gifting money for a flat (wtf?). Focus is on providing care for your father.
House isn’t yours whilst your dad is alive. It needs to be sold to provide care for your dad.
Do you have a solicitor?

IvorTheEngineDriver · 30/08/2023 11:40

Get a lawyer. This is not something you take advice on from a bunch of randoms on an internet forum.

mosiacmaker · 30/08/2023 11:43

You need to get power of attorney for your parents asap. There is a brilliant Facebook group called Safeguarding futures which is run by two UK elderly legal experts - I would recommend joining the group and then you can read the various posts and also contact the admin for help setting up power of attorney with your parents so that you can manage care home fees etc and sell their house https://facebook.com/groups/660675124407882/

Facebook

https://facebook.com/groups/660675124407882/

Original poster
year12clueless · 30/08/2023 11:43

No one has power of attorney. Nothing has been thought about or planned for. Tbh I sort of assumed they would have given him some of the house as the will I saw was years old but apparently there was no planning. I'm angry about this. I'm angry that I'm now worrying about bloody Bob who squatted in my life for so long and had such a negative impact on my relationship with my parents.

Bob has their bank card as he pays the bills and buys shopping etc. If i stop that I'll need to find a way to set up direct debits and neither parent is in any position to manage this.

OP posts:
Original poster
year12clueless · 30/08/2023 11:44

mosiacmaker · 30/08/2023 11:43

You need to get power of attorney for your parents asap. There is a brilliant Facebook group called Safeguarding futures which is run by two UK elderly legal experts - I would recommend joining the group and then you can read the various posts and also contact the admin for help setting up power of attorney with your parents so that you can manage care home fees etc and sell their house https://facebook.com/groups/660675124407882/

Thank you. This is really helpful.

OP posts:
Idrankyourbananamilk · 30/08/2023 11:45

To answer your previous question, no, you can’t gift him any of your parents money. Only they can do that. If you go to the bank and say that someone other than your parents has access to their bank card and could/is abusing that bank card then the bank should have a system for dealing with that. Even if he isn’t abusing it, he should t have access to their account. The bank will agree with that.

Ask yourself this: whilst your parents would want Bob looked after, does he really care about them or does he care about his cash cow? If Bob really cared about your Dad, he’d want him in a place to be properly looked after. He’s want him to get proper care and be clean and have dignity. Bob can’t do that for him, but is still insistent he takes care of him at home? He’s only interested in keeping the roof over his head and access to their bank account.

Don’t feel like you are obligated to take care of the man has verbally abused you and caused estrangement from your parents (no doubt to prevent you from challenging his very apparent taking advantage of them) and now is obviously only interested in protecting his own interests.

PinkCherryBlossoms · 30/08/2023 11:45

tescocreditcard · 30/08/2023 11:19

If the council are going to disregard non and sell the home then that's what will happen. It won't be you making bob leave it will be them but they will still have to find somewhere for him to live. Sorry for your troubles.

Yeah I'd have thought so? No reason to let them make it your problem. Local authorities have powers and procedures for selling off homes to fund care regardless of the consent of relatives. I understand feeling worried about Bob, but you don't really have any power in this situation.

mosiacmaker · 30/08/2023 11:45

My wording made it sound like the experts were elderly but I trust you got my drift 🤣 and although PP is sort of correct that you shouldn’t get advice from random strangers on the internet, I have found this Facebook group immensely useful in knowing how to proceed with my own elderly parents. Solicitors can and do screw you over with unnecessary fees and the admins of safeguarding futures are really good and can do things like support with wills for a low cost.

SchadenfreudeIstMeinMittelname · 30/08/2023 11:46

Do not give Bob money or take on any responsibility for him. That is the trap your parents fell into.

mosiacmaker · 30/08/2023 11:46

for example they can support you to advocate that your dad has live in care and they don’t need to sell the house straight away, but can sell after they pass away x

Idrankyourbananamilk · 30/08/2023 11:49

You might need to be careful with your timing around power of attorney and Bob having their card for bills etc. he could clear out the account before you gain access.