Selling parents home for care fees

[year12clueless]

I need some quick advice- both moral and legal.

I've been largely estranged from my parents for years. Occasional visits if I'm in the area (several hundred mikes from where I live now) and phone calls at Xmas etc. They're fine with this as am I.

They have a 4 bed house somewhere nice. For the past 36 years they have had their friend "Bob" living with them. He moved in when I was a teenager as he was apparently struggling to find somewhere to live. Honestly it was a very strange set up (everyone, including my parents had their own bedroom) and Bob is a little peculiar. However the three of them have lived together happily. Bob is a big reason for the estrangement between us- we never got on, he was sometimes very unpleasant to me (verbally) and my parents never defended me. Honestly they've been happier just the 3 of them.

Mum is now in hospice care and not expected to last much longer. Dad and Bob have been visiting her daily and after a recent visit the hospice called adult protective services. They visited the house and found it in a reasonable condition (Bob was very house proud!) but identified that my Dad's care needs were such that Bob couldn't look after him alone any more. Turns out Dads dementia is bad (this was hidden from me) and Bob had a slight stroke meaning he can't lift or manage dad who is doubly incontinent etc.

I've now been told that the best solution for dad will be a care home.

The issue- apparently the house will need to be sold to fund this. However this will leave Bob homeless. He hasn't even got the full state pension as he never really found a job he liked. He's about 10 years younger than dad and apart from weakness from the stroke he's healthy.

I have seen my parents will. They left the house to me but Bob has the right to stay in it until he dies. However they didn't think about this situation. Bob has never paid any rent or anything so there's not even a rental contract.

Honestly I dislike Bob intensely. However I can't see him homeless. But I'm not sure what the legal position is. I've spoken to the council who refused to consider him in their calculations and just kept telling me the house should be sold.

-I need to not upset mum in her final weeks

• do the best thing for dad (care home)
• hold my nose and try to help Bob

Does anyone know what the legal situation is with regard to Bob? I can't really afford a solicitor ATM and whilst mum and dad have money I can't access it (Bob can though as he's got their bank card!)

I spoke to Age Uk and the woman said this was new to her (!) and she'd speak to someone and call me back but they haven't. All this will take time to set up and so I need to start making decisions now.

Has anyone got any information or advice?

As previous poster stated "With regards to the house sale, he isn’t a relative over 60 or a disabled relative, a spouse, partner or a child so the care home will view the house as an asset to be sold to fund the care. Legally, I think Bob is a lodger, so actually he has very few rights". These are the council rules. I'd look for a shared room in a house for Bob. I'd ask him for your parents bank card back and withdraw a deposit and first month's rent for Bob then try to help him claim any benefits he might be entitled to. I think if you do that you can say you have done your best by Bob. It sounds like they might have wanted a son. Then sell your parents house. Use the proceeds to fund their care home and try to keep Bob from seeing your Mum as it might upset her. Your Dad clearly needs to be in a care home. Any chance he can go into the same one your Mum's in?

Sorry if I missed this, but just rewind a bit. Why are you involved in this situation? Do you need to be? If you’ve been estranged from your parents and are now about to experience trauma seeing your mum, can’t you just leave them to it?
I know this goes against everything society expects but it’s perfectly ok to look after your own well-being and not get embroiled in situations helping people who’ve presumably not been bothered about you for years.

I wouldn't spend a penny helping Bob if I were you. He is well able to do it himself.

Firstly report bank card as stolen.
That is number one priority...

You can phone the bank and report the bank card lost. They will cancel it then but I'd allow Bob to get some cash to pay a months rent and a bond for him to leave your parents house and go into a house share. Then get the card cancelled. Just say it's lost don't report it stolen.

Stop the bank card, to begin with.

As for selling the House, the council will take over this bit, for the fees - if Bob eligible for help, they will help.

If they'd died, and it was in their Will, their wishes would have to be abused by, but the house needs to be sold to fund care fees.

If you're still worried, book an appointment with a solicitor.

Sorry you have found yourself in this situation. It all sounds very stressful.
You are probably going to have to speak to your dad's GP and have a discussion re the dementia and he will probably have to undergo a capacity assessment. I would have expected social services to have already done this tbh. If he is deemed not to have capacity he can not consent to POA, guardianship may have to be looked at.
Speak to adult social care. If your dad has been assessed as needing residential/nursing home care then get the ball rolling with that. Home care may be a very short term fix, but it sounds like it's likely past the point of a care package offering meaningful support.
Explain the situation re Bob to them. They should be able to sign post him to housing/homeless departments. It is not your responsibility to sort his life out for him, however I would make social services aware of him and the situation he is going to find himself in soon re homelessness.

Be kind to yourself 💐

I keep re-reading this. Honestly the thought of just saying "not my problem, please sort it out" to the state feels very uncomfortable but realistically they've not been proper parents since Bob moved in and I haven't seen them in years.

I have almost no capacity for this shit show. DD is in her final A level year. DH setting up his own business. I have a FT job. My lovely MIL who has been a massive support to me is unwell. My lovely ex-SIL (BIL ex wife but we're all still close) has just been diagnosed with skin cancer and we're all rallying round to help her and I'd rather focus on people I love who love me.

I've considered my PIL to be my parents for years. They came to my university graduation...,

Oh I see, reading back the OPs posts, it does appear that you may be right in regards to the bills. OP, is this the case, that all bills are paid manually? If so then I agree with @Idrankyourbananamilk that this is potentially financial abuse, depending on how 'aware' of finances your parents were. Did Bob only take over once there was a cognitive decline?

I would eat my hat if Bob hasn't been rinsing them for years, or at least using some of their money for his own personal needs all that time. He really has made sure that he is financially in the driving seat. Awful man, I'd be seeing a solicitor and if legal, putting this man out on the street. You will need to be very firm with Bob, he appears to have a solid brass neck.

As the PP above has said - WHY are you even getting involved?

Your parents didn’t ask you to have POA for them, so why rush to secure it?

Presumably someone from adult social services or similar has contacted you, but they can’t compel you to do anything. Just don’t get involved, so that they’ll have to deal with things (in respect of both your Dad and Bob).

Your Dad’s dementia and double incontinence didn’t happen overnight. While Bob may be struggling, the situation is not acute.

While it may be “morally” hard to not get involved in your Dad’s care, it’s also morally questionable to put out of his home a man that your parents clearly care for, and who must have been providing care and support to your parents.

If you must insert yourself as POA, hopefully you’ll locate savings and just start using those first to pay for care.

OP has stated in subsequent posts she can’t do this while her Father remains at home, as Bob wouldn’t have money to feed him or pay the bills. Timing needs to be right.

And it’s not stolen.

@mushti I agree Bob has rights now, but there is a legal conflict in that the property owners need to sell the property to pay nursing home fees I.e. their living expenses.

Shelter says you can evict someone who is a licencee under estoppel but the court will be generous with giving them time.

The law will have to decide if Bob can lawfully be evicted. If he can be, the property is sold so the clause in the wills fails. If he can’t be then Social Services either foot the bill or put a charge against the property.

Ultimately Social Services/local authority will have to become involved to balance Bobs rights with those of the OPs parents.

Just responded to someone who said something similar. Am considering it.

Weirdly my BILs new girlfriend asked me something similar yesterday. She's relatively new to the family and didn't have all the years of weirdness to remember but she just asked me if I wanted to do all this and I said I felt I had to but now I'm wondering.

Is Bob their boyfriend?! Very odd set up. !

Equally if bob gets wind of seeing his golden goose being taken to the slaughter house, he might clean out the account.

Parasites are good at making sure they're ok.

"Honestly the thought of just saying "not my problem, please sort it out" to the state feels very uncomfortable but realistically they've not been proper parents since Bob moved in and I haven't seen them in years. "

Please just do this OP. It's not your monkeys and not your circus. If you feel you want to visit your DPs in a purely pastoral visit then do that, or if not don't.

The Bob situation has been ongoing for years. Your DPs allowed it to happen, it's not on you to sort it out, spend your energy on the people who love and need you.

Not your circus, not your monkeys!!!

Leave 'the State' to it.

Sounds like you have enough going on without having to run around cleaning up the mess that this very odd arrangement has caused in your non-parents' lives.

@year12clueless people are right when they say you don’t need to be involved.

However, be aware social services will look for anyone who is willing to deal with this and so Bob could end up being your parents POA.

I strongly advise you to get legal advice on how to gain health and financial PoA for your father. You need to get your father's card from Bob too. Not that he's under suspicion of abusing the finances, but that you will need to access the funds to get your father the care he needs. But I don't think either of you has the legal right to use the card unless you have PoA.

You are going to need a sit down face to face chat with Bob.

i agree it would be cruel to just turf him out. Try the council again and spell out that sale of the house will render Bob homeless but that it is vital for covering the fees. Contact Shelter too as they may be more helpful.

I think Bob ending up with PoA is a disaster waiting to happen. Apart from anything else it is a massive legal responsibility and you need to keep scrupulous records to ensure no abuse of funds has occurred.

Yes, your other option is to wash your hands of it all. Refuse to visit, manage or discuss. Tell all authorities, hospice and care homes you are estranged. Let the social services and council deal with it.

Bob might then empty their bank account and leg it with the money, but do you care? The house will get sold, he will get evicted and the money will get used for care.

Perhaps for your mental health it will be better, if you can deal with the guilt.

If you haven’t already had counselling I would suggest it. You don’t owe any of them, despite what your guilt and the authorities will try to convince you.

Take care of yourself OP. Family demonstrates their love by actions, and it sounds like your IL are all the family you need x

Ok I'm a bit shaky. Going to step away from this and walk the dog for a bit.

Came on looking for practical advice on next steps. Got some brilliant knowledge. But now there's a whole can of worms and parental trauma crap and I think I need a moment

Back later hopefully. Thanks.

The local authority do have the discretion to let Bob stay in the house - so that the house doesn't have to be sold to pay for care.

Assume you don't have LPA for your parents?

Great post. Hope you’re ok OP. Look after yourself.