Does anyone else have decidedly average children?

[Dotandtime]

Despite being really quite a determinedly good parent?!

As toddlers both my children were "clever". DS1 knew his letters and numbers (could point to them) before he could speak and he astounded staff with his jigsaw skills in preschool 😆 DS2 walked at 9mo and his nursery said they'd never met such an enquiring mind.

In infant school they were both on the gifted and talented list, which was a thing then, although it was never entirely clear why!

Through junior school they did OK. I turned up for everything supported everything the school did, arranged lots of extracurricular activities had lots of battles over homework By the end of year 6 they both achieved slightly above "expected"

In secondary they seemed to become invisible. Never picked for anything, didnt excel at sport, music, art, we couldn't find their passions. Both did just enough to stay out of trouble but no more and no one seemed to notice that they could/should be doing more. I kept trying, tried to instill a work ethic etc, but there didn't seem to be any consequences or reward at school. They both got above average GCSE grades, but not as good as the Yr 6 SATS suggested they should.

Ds1 wanted to go to Sandhurst and needed 3 Ds at ALevel. That's what he got, but he failed the medical which was a big blow and came just at the start of lockdown. Since then he's worked in various fast food restaurants and coffee shops. He's doing OK, has a management position now, but it's not what you dream of for your kids.

Ds2 left school at 16 to do an apprenticeship. Then he ended up wfh during lockdown which was never going to be great for a young person and I've no idea how an apprenticeship was supposed to work on that basis. It didn't and he dropped out. Then he went to college, but that didn't last and he's doing casual work now.

They're fine, they're good lads, they were never any trouble behaviourwise, they pay their way, they're good to their grandparents etc, I just wonder what I should have done differently to get them a better start in adult life. I see parents who don't seem to have done much differently to me currently reporting their DC's firsts and I wonder why.

I'd like to say it doesn't matter because DC are happy, but I'm not sure they are really, especially DS2.

It's never too late. What would ds2 like to do in the future. That's the key really. Aimlessly drifting doesn't help. Any additional needs?

C’mon, this is Mumsnet. No one is going to admit that their offspring isn’t anything other than ‘stunning’ or ‘incredibly gifted’ 😂

What do you and their father do work wise? That is often a big factor. Did you go to university?

My DS(8) is totally average at 8, which is a massive win considering he never achieved "working within" or "expected" until Y2. If he's happy and working and enjoying life I'll be okay with that!

Well I know that but how exactly do you prevent it if they're that way inclined and they're adults?

I would say that two boys who are working and supporting themselves while also being decent citizens is fairly successful parenting personally. Not everyone can be an A* achiever in life.

Yes I blame their father. TBF he died when they were in their late teens, which didn't help, obviously.

I am a well educated professional with two degrees, one of which I studied for when theybwere young, so they've had that example. He bumbled around until he was 30 then seemed to fall into a job that brought opportunities, which he did take with a good woman behind him and ended up earning about the same as me.

He never placed much importance on education, as he hadn't needed it. I think we live in a different world now though and those opportunities aren't as available to people without qualifications.

They both sound like really great lads. They haven’t given you a moments trouble and I’m sore they have a great future ahead of them.

My kids are both ND. One is very good at reading/writing and absorbs information very easily but if he's not interested in something he won't apply himself to it at all. It wouldn't surprise me if he just can't be bothered to find work as an adult unless he literally had to do that or starve. The other I think will do OK, he's practical and not lazy. But I am surprised they aren't higher achieving academically as both DH and I were/are.

I know and that's what I think most of the time, but certain parents have been getting on my nerves today 😆

I don’t think parenting has much to do with it. My parents were both only semi-literate, having been taken out of education at 13 as their earnings were needed, so they couldn’t help with homework etc, and they didn’t know there was such a thing as extra-curriculars, and tried to get me to leave school at 15. We were grindingly poor and a big family, and I knew education was my only route out, so I won scholarship after scholarship.

My child simply won’t have that sense of urgency, even though he’s clever .

For me I'm happy with the role I have.
That said if I could eg time travel and change my past I would, I have the potential but, I lack the network and connections etc that can be achieved via oxbridge.

Hang on, I was with those parents today - they must have met up with you after I'd left made an excuse to leave because I was sick of it

They sound great, the pandemic has been difficult for that age group.

Talk to him about it? What is ds2, 20? If he's determined just to drift in and out of casual work then fine, but do you know him well? Can you think of something that he might be really good at?

Yes, I do wonder if they've had it a bit too easy, they know theyll be OK regardless, but you could say that about all privileged kids.

At the risk of being bashed by all the resident MN ASD/ADHD gatekeepers (apparently you are never allowed to suggest neurodiversity as an explanation for any type of behaviour outlined in a thread), could it be possible that they had some sort of ND? The "burnt out gifted kid" trope is very popular on Tiktok and Instagram...basically people sharing their experiences about how they were good in school but ended up exhausted from the expectations and living a fairly mediocre life. A significant number actually had undiagnosed ADHD/ASD which typically strikes during major life changes like puberty, moving out, living independently, having kids. At each one of these levels, performance may drop due to increasing issues with executive function, self esteem, social interactions etc. Very high masking people may manage to "mask" their way into lucrative careers but break down in adulthood. Other children manage fine in the early years where there's less pressure but can't cope with the stress of exams, receiving grades etc.

As adults, they aren't truly happy as they're still burdened by the expectation of society. Even if you weren't "clever" as a child, there's still the feeling that you need something to show for yourself, but it's impossible to know where to start. The covid Gen-Zers have it particularly bad because they had to cope with several years of disrupted education and coming out in a crap economy with very little hope of major success.

I get you, OP!

DH and I were both naturally academic high achievers (Oxbridge, Imperial). When DS1 was in playschool, the owner/manager said she had never encountered such an academically gifted child in her 25 year career.

It's been downhill since then 😂.

I'm being too flippant really. Ds2 is very complex following his father's traumatic illness and death and no he's not talking to anyone. It's a huge worry.

They sound like good kids, and I think a drifty patch at some point is quite normal for all sorts of people.

I think it’s been established that a lot of supposedly clever little kids are just early developers, so schools are more wait and see now.

Sounds to me like the older one is doing well, given the military just wasn’t an option. What do you feel he’s missing?

If the younger one is drifting any chance you could pack him off to Auz for a year for a working holiday?

Well to answer your question literally - most children will obviously be average! Very few will truly be gifted or talented in some way but that's ok.

I followed an academic route, great exam results, A levels, degree, MSC... ended up doing a self employed 'trade' that I dont need a single academic qualification for that is nevertheless extremely highly paid.

My DH also got the degree etc but often remarks that he'd have been as well off (or better) going into a trade rather than following an academic pathway.

My (garbled) point is that the path to success isn't always liner - your Dss are still young and have time to find their feet and determine what their own success looks like. They sound like lovely boys, please don't write them off too soon - they may just surprise you yet!

I'd say report back in 5 years. So so much can change. I know a massive amount of people who took up new careers in 20s

Ah. That puts a different spin on things. Counselling would help him but he'd have to want to engage. Good luck OP.

I did take DS1 to the doctor at about 6yo because I thight he had autistic traits and maybe some motor skills issues. The pediatrician disagreed although he did have some OT for a while. He seems entirely NT to me now, if still a bit clumsy. He's actually brilliant with people. He has a gentle air of authority and a firm kindness.

Ds2 didn't give those concerns as a youngster but is very insular and has terrible trouble with eye contact now, but also he's been through a horrible time.

I agree. You’ve done an excellent job in my opinion and their life skills and decency is worth far more than any prestigious career.

Yes, exactly that. He cooked dinner tonight, which is the first time he's engaged with anything in a long time.

Your boys sound lovely. And as young adults things can still change. The important thing is that they're healthy and happy AND they are doing something. But I understand you wanting more for them. You haven't failed though. So please don't think like that. They sound like wonderful young men.

Maybe they need some support or options or perhaps they're happy and managing for now. It might be they need some confidence or skills to make changes.