Does anyone else have decidedly average children?

[Dotandtime]

Despite being really quite a determinedly good parent?!

As toddlers both my children were "clever". DS1 knew his letters and numbers (could point to them) before he could speak and he astounded staff with his jigsaw skills in preschool 😆 DS2 walked at 9mo and his nursery said they'd never met such an enquiring mind.

In infant school they were both on the gifted and talented list, which was a thing then, although it was never entirely clear why!

Through junior school they did OK. I turned up for everything supported everything the school did, arranged lots of extracurricular activities had lots of battles over homework By the end of year 6 they both achieved slightly above "expected"

In secondary they seemed to become invisible. Never picked for anything, didnt excel at sport, music, art, we couldn't find their passions. Both did just enough to stay out of trouble but no more and no one seemed to notice that they could/should be doing more. I kept trying, tried to instill a work ethic etc, but there didn't seem to be any consequences or reward at school. They both got above average GCSE grades, but not as good as the Yr 6 SATS suggested they should.

Ds1 wanted to go to Sandhurst and needed 3 Ds at ALevel. That's what he got, but he failed the medical which was a big blow and came just at the start of lockdown. Since then he's worked in various fast food restaurants and coffee shops. He's doing OK, has a management position now, but it's not what you dream of for your kids.

Ds2 left school at 16 to do an apprenticeship. Then he ended up wfh during lockdown which was never going to be great for a young person and I've no idea how an apprenticeship was supposed to work on that basis. It didn't and he dropped out. Then he went to college, but that didn't last and he's doing casual work now.

They're fine, they're good lads, they were never any trouble behaviourwise, they pay their way, they're good to their grandparents etc, I just wonder what I should have done differently to get them a better start in adult life. I see parents who don't seem to have done much differently to me currently reporting their DC's firsts and I wonder why.

I'd like to say it doesn't matter because DC are happy, but I'm not sure they are really, especially DS2.

My parents most definitely cared what I was up to in the 80s. I felt a lot of pressure to achieve, but ultimately that's what made me achieve.

i can relate to your sons in a lot of ways. I achieved pretty well at school with little effort and went to uni, again doing ok with minimal effort. During this time my dad got very ill and eventually passed. After I left uni I worked in the same cafe I had since I was 15, applied for jobs but didn’t go for the interviews and bumbled along despite my degree.

I eventually retrained at 26 after getting married and have worked in my new field for almost ten years. Looking back I was almost certainly a little depressed and just didn’t really see the point in pushing myself after my dad. It might take some time (in my case 6 or so years) but they’ll find their path with a little (very gentle) support.

Honestly I think you need to leave them to find their own way, with nothing but gentle guidance when they want it. It’s interesting you are comparing them to children of parents who do “less” who are, by your definition achieving “more”. Sometimes that pressure parents put on (even unconsciously) by wanting them to be exceptional has the opposite effect. It’s the same with the label of “gifted and talented”, which is why they don’t use it anymore. They’ll find their own way.

Just to share a story from my perspective, may give you some comfort. Just because they are in those jobs now, doesn't mean they will be forever.

My DH left school at 15 with next to nothing and had attended 2 different secondary schools - school was not for him. Started college but didn't finish a course and bummed about the next few years working at a petrol station, fast food restaurant, internet cafe (back when there were such things!) and spent his life gaming. Then someone he worked with said to him in his early 20s he better sort his life out otherwise he'd be working security forever. He got an apprenticeship in a trade and after a few years was qualified and went onto work for a massive government funded organisation in the UK where he worked his way up from a basic level to now in the realms of senior management over the last 15 years. During this time he also completed an HNC (I think or HND can never remember!) and more recently a degree through work. He would never have gone to Uni when he was 18, it just wasn't the right time. He is now almost 40 and hugely motivated in both his career and education - literally worlds away from where he was at 16/18/20.

So just because they are doing what they are doing now doesn't mean it will be forever, and it wasn't his parent who made him think about his life. They sound like well bought up, kind young men and you should be proud of that. Who knows where they may end up in the future. Xxx

Sorry, just to also add, my DH lost his father at a very young age and had a difficult childhood at times with a step father he did not get on with - so who knows how both of these things really affected him in the other areas of his life as he grew up. You are all doing great ❤️

Sometimes I feel the same way about mine and feel incredibly guilty about it. However there is more to life than academic or career success. Times are ever more uncertain. I try to think big picture. The past few years have not been easy for the young.

This is very interesting. Thank you.

It sounds like they were exhausted from school too early. Pushing all the extra curricular activities and really making it all sound uninteresting. Your post seems to lack depth of knowledge of their emotional journey. There father died when they were teenagers, you drip of disappointment and shame for their achievements for just surviving. They sound like they are doing just fine, and doing just fine is ok. Some people take longer to find their passion or they are content living different life values to you. They may not be happy with where they are but being constantly reminded they are in adequate in your eyes by non verbal cues might not be helping. Who cares what anyone else is doing the friend who has a 1st degree might be doing coke or having an eating disorder or the side. My opinion it is the whole person that matters, not just the tick boxes on life. You really glossed over their father dying. That will have significant impact.

Do they have interests and hobbies though? Are they inquisitive about the world?

Education and intelligence isn't just a means to becoming a multimillionaire by starting a tech company..

When people say well I left with no GCSEs and then became rich by starting a business, so ha to all the people who went to private school/ university and have average earnings and jobs are sort of missing the point. Life isn't just a race to earn the most,.and that's not all education is for (or shouldn't be anyway)

I think you're worrying about them fulfilling their primary school potential at present when they've both actually had some very disruptive life events.

Both have had solid plans, tried to make a go of them and had a spanner in the works- covid and sandhurst rejection not to mention the death of their dad (sorry for all of your loss).

It doesn't sound like they're aimless drifters by nature, they've just had huge setbacks and need to regroup, so I don't think you comparing them to yourself now is a particularly useful metric.

How about encouraging DS1 to give Sandhurst one last bash if that was his ambition for a long time, rather than saying 'bugger them, then'. Admin processes, particularly public sector, are quite often a slog and riddled with errors but he's fought the rejection and been given a second chance. Could he be persuaded to grab it, reapply, an then make a decision whether or not to go forward if he is accepted?

Separate point but many, many, many people are by the nature of how averages work, pretty average in life. No world class talents or burning passions. That's fine. Also people have talents that don't show up in school where it's the arts, sports, academics and that's usually about it unless they do chess or debating or similar. My school had neither or nothing similar. You mention one DS having innate people skills. That could stand him in terrific stead in any number of future jobs. Plenty of people really struggle as managers.

I think your boys need grief counselling (not sure if they're having it already) and compassion along with a bit of patience while they let things tick over for a bit doing entry level jobs and get back on their feet emotionally.

Apologies for not reading all 9 pages so maybe repeated points but concentrate on the present and next steps. Don't look back at how you thought things might be when they were tiny. Also don't look too far into the future catastrophising.