Does anyone else have decidedly average children?

[Dotandtime]

Despite being really quite a determinedly good parent?!

As toddlers both my children were "clever". DS1 knew his letters and numbers (could point to them) before he could speak and he astounded staff with his jigsaw skills in preschool 😆 DS2 walked at 9mo and his nursery said they'd never met such an enquiring mind.

In infant school they were both on the gifted and talented list, which was a thing then, although it was never entirely clear why!

Through junior school they did OK. I turned up for everything supported everything the school did, arranged lots of extracurricular activities had lots of battles over homework By the end of year 6 they both achieved slightly above "expected"

In secondary they seemed to become invisible. Never picked for anything, didnt excel at sport, music, art, we couldn't find their passions. Both did just enough to stay out of trouble but no more and no one seemed to notice that they could/should be doing more. I kept trying, tried to instill a work ethic etc, but there didn't seem to be any consequences or reward at school. They both got above average GCSE grades, but not as good as the Yr 6 SATS suggested they should.

Ds1 wanted to go to Sandhurst and needed 3 Ds at ALevel. That's what he got, but he failed the medical which was a big blow and came just at the start of lockdown. Since then he's worked in various fast food restaurants and coffee shops. He's doing OK, has a management position now, but it's not what you dream of for your kids.

Ds2 left school at 16 to do an apprenticeship. Then he ended up wfh during lockdown which was never going to be great for a young person and I've no idea how an apprenticeship was supposed to work on that basis. It didn't and he dropped out. Then he went to college, but that didn't last and he's doing casual work now.

They're fine, they're good lads, they were never any trouble behaviourwise, they pay their way, they're good to their grandparents etc, I just wonder what I should have done differently to get them a better start in adult life. I see parents who don't seem to have done much differently to me currently reporting their DC's firsts and I wonder why.

I'd like to say it doesn't matter because DC are happy, but I'm not sure they are really, especially DS2.

DD is 9 and so, so naturally clever. She doesn't have to work at it at all , which is resulting in her not building resilience for failure. I suspect when she reaches high school, she'll be hit with genuinely hard things and have no skills to approach them. Then the academic slide will come because it's much easier not to try than it is to try and fail.
I talk with her about this a lot, but she's 9 and what I'm talking about is just too far away for her. Everything is far too easy right now so why would that change?
I, on the other hand, have had to work really hard as academia did not come naturally. I did really well in my exams, far better than some of the naturally clever folk because I was used to putting effort in. I've done well enough but DD could do so much more, I just think that having no chance to build resilience is likely to have a significant effect on her academic outcomes.

This is absurd. You’re lucky to have children, children that are good people and happy. Give you’re head a wobble will you. What have you done that’s beyond “average”.

Just keep tabs on are they happy without being seemingly disappointed in their lives . Don't offer advice just support. Don't forget even today many successful people don't have higher education.
What apprenticeship was it BTW?

It absolutely is not absurd to be concerned as a parent that your adult children have settled to working in jobs that are unlikely to afford them rent/bills/food in a shared house comfortable.

It's also not absurd to be somewhat disappointed that your naturally bright DC who probably could have done anything they really invested in seem content to coast along.

We have a ticking time bomb in this country of adult children needing to live with their parents because they don't have the urge to leave home, the resilience, stable mental health, or the money to afford it. At this age we want to foster their independence for their sake so that we know they'll be ok when we're no longer in a position to support them.

I was an average kid, I wasn't particularly skilled or good at anything academically or practically, but, I wasn't bad either. However, it did take me a long time to decide what to do and I could never stick to things. I did after school clubs in primary but would quit after a couple of months as I'd get bored or just not like it anymore. After GCSE's I went to college for A levels, failed first year of college, moved to a different college to do an NVQ for two years, passed that, then, did one year and open university and then finally transferred to a brick university. I've graduated with a 2:1 and secured a grad job and finally feel on track, I'm 24 now, so it has taken me a while.

No but it is absurd to call them average. They have lost a parent and they still seem to be functioning members of society? Children are staying at home
longer because this country is a joke and they simply cannot afford to buy or they have to pay extortionate rents.
To be disappointed in children who still get up and go to work everyday (whatever that may be) when they could be sat on their ass is ridiculous. Maybe OP should give them sometime before she announces to MN that she is upset. I presume OP is head of Mensa and CEO of Nasa?

Just to add, I lost my partner when my son was 2. Everyday I am happy he is alive, thriving and HAPPY. You’d think a tragedy like that would put things in to perspective

OP wouldn't have posted here if she didn't want others' views to support her in supporting her children. She hasn't written them off at all.

DH drifted, for want of a better word, until his early 30s. His education was disrupted (IMO) by his parents moving countries during his teen years and then moving countries again a few years later.

He was doing ok, working etc but didn't have a passion. Then through chance he found what he wanted to do, thankfully was able to study for free to do this (healthcare) and is now very much enjoying the work and doing well. It's healthcare so not amazingly well paid but steady.

So what I am saying in a long winded way is, don't lose hope! There is plenty of time for your boys.

This is so lovely ❤️

My kids span a wide range of careers, from charity shop, to lawyer, builder and supermarket manager. They will find their way, in their own time. In fact, one of mine is doing an online degree now, aged thirty, after deciding to have a change. They will be fine.

What I would give for my son to work in a coffee shop when he's an adult, we're be lucky if he is alive in early adulthood..just a different prospective.

As many other posters have said, they sound like great lads, who will find their own way. Ignore the performative parents. By its very definition, "average" is what the majority of kids (and parents!) are. Your lads don't take drugs, they haven't been in trouble, they finished school, they still speak to their mother and grandparents - those are all solid achievements in today's world of living with teenagers / young adults. What they are doing now work wise is not what what they will do forever (and you are an example of someone who studied later in life). Things move on. They've also had to deal with grief, which affects people in different and numerous ways. I would say that as a family you are doing brilliantly, dealing with life's slings and arrows, and still coming out the other side as decent human beings.

Just wanted to send you a hug, and say thank you for giving us all a reality check. Best wishes to your family.

My story is different from yours in the detail but in terms of external measures like exam results and careers my children are average. It's not what I expected to be honest but it has done me the world of good in terms of attitude and understanding. So many parents are smug about their kids, even people who think they aren't.
I am so proud of so much about my children those external things no longer matter to me and I actually feel a bit sorry for parents who are so hung up on them.

Tbh it sounds like their secondary school was poor - they did not achieve at their potential due to school allowing coasting. School is hugely important.

I blame school and covid for DD1 malaise - GCSE were good not brilliant as expected - her confidence took a knock but she has finally re-grouped and now a lot depends on her A-level results - a knock back there may set her back again.

I spent age researching the schools and it took an inspection and head leaving for it to basically collapse.

DD1 was advanced then struggled in primary was flying in secondary then low expectation from school hit and her confidence dipped and no it's wait and see.

DS been much less affected by schools opinion of him - quiet under the radar - very like me TBH plodding along.

But add in a parental death - and it will take even more time to regroup and figure stuff out.

I think the hard bit is worry and fear as a parent they won't find their way - it's trying to support and offer encouragement and offer ways forward - without being overbearing and pushy and imposing what you want on them - it's hard path to to find - and everyone say it's all fine but low pay and cost of living these days is actually a bloody hard lifestyle- but most things do sort themselves with time and frankly most of it is our of parental hands.

The vast majority of people aren't geniuses. Besides, they are only young and Covid has derailed a lot of teenagers/20-somethings. As long as they're happy, are decent guys, have goals etc., I wouldn't worry.

That's extremely kind of you, thank you very much and its only human to want the best for our children but every person is unique and if you've got your health, you've won already

Boys are often sloe burners. My cousin's ds is starting uni this year aged 29 after dropping out of college and having a series of dead end jobs.

It’s hard in your teens to suddenly come up with a career path. Mine are teens now, it’s scary how they suddenly are rocketing towards adulthood!

So DS1 is in a management position - that’s great. He may want to do a business degree part time /night school or if he wants to change career, he’ll definitely have transferable skills and responsibility he can talk about.

DS2, I’d just be asking whether the casual work is something he wants to make more permanent or does he need help thinking of other options. I’d just make it clear it’s because he didn’t seem satisfied rather than you.

I absolutely get the frustration of the long-drawn-out process and of course his father's death, but I can imagine another scenario in which he DIDN'T say 'sod 'em' but gritted his teeth, started the process again and got in.
Maybe he wasn't all that fired up about going to Sandhurst, or maybe he would just rather not try for all the most difficult things.

My 4 dc are all highly motivated and clever. I was clever but not very motivated and now despite my degrees etc I'm working on a zero hours contract in a warehouse. I think they all have such high aspirations because of the difficult upbringing they have had - frequently having no money, living in cramped conditions etc. They all are very independent, any hobbies are taken to the extreme eg dd2 has been in the world championships for her sport a few times. Ds is 20, is ND and got the top marks in his first year exams last year and was awarded a large sum of money. He had speech problems and bilateral sensory processing disorder when he was younger but he has excelled in so many areas. At a year 6 parents evening at his state primary one teacher called him God's gift to the world! I'm not sure about that but he is inspiring.
The main thing I did was send all of them private for secondary, tutoring them myself for the entrance exams. I think if I'd let them go to our local secondary their futures would have been very different as despite all of them getting the equivalent of level 6 in their year 6 Sats (119 for youngest) they would not have got their gcse predictions. Dd3 has just been predicted all 9s at gcse.

Ds (20) had problems with passing the medical for the OTC. The first time he passed but due to some medication he'd taken in the past they rejected him. He was assured he could reapply the following year. He reapplied and this time failed the medical, appealled, had further tests and he's currently away at camp with them. He was very disappointed the first year as he'd been head of his cadet corps and a Lord Lieutenants Cadet but he filled his time well, starting up a new club at university etc

Reading your post with interest OP and tbh I’m feeling like I’m looking at my future.

My kids are still at primary, but very unlike me. Like you, I was clever, motivated and competitive. As a child I thought deeply about what I wanted to do when I grew up and considered so many high flying careers. A high flying career was something I really coveted - and it made me driven.

I ask my kids what they want to do and they just shrug. 🤦‍♀️ don’t seem to have any interest in any career.

they are lazy like their father. He also encourages this half arsed approach to life.

it does sound though like there is more going on with your boys- grief/ family counselling might help?

also, don’t be too disappointed in them yet. It often takes a while for people to find their passion.

the fact they were considered ‘gifted and talented’ shows they have natural ability- they just need the motivation to put it to good use.

Thank you for this thread Dotandtime. I have similar worries about my 2, although I hadn't wanted to admit it.

Thank you too to other posters for your replies. They're weren't for me, of course, but I still found them immensely reassuring.

Your sons sound lovely Dotandtime.