Does anyone else have decidedly average children?

[Dotandtime]

Despite being really quite a determinedly good parent?!

As toddlers both my children were "clever". DS1 knew his letters and numbers (could point to them) before he could speak and he astounded staff with his jigsaw skills in preschool 😆 DS2 walked at 9mo and his nursery said they'd never met such an enquiring mind.

In infant school they were both on the gifted and talented list, which was a thing then, although it was never entirely clear why!

Through junior school they did OK. I turned up for everything supported everything the school did, arranged lots of extracurricular activities had lots of battles over homework By the end of year 6 they both achieved slightly above "expected"

In secondary they seemed to become invisible. Never picked for anything, didnt excel at sport, music, art, we couldn't find their passions. Both did just enough to stay out of trouble but no more and no one seemed to notice that they could/should be doing more. I kept trying, tried to instill a work ethic etc, but there didn't seem to be any consequences or reward at school. They both got above average GCSE grades, but not as good as the Yr 6 SATS suggested they should.

Ds1 wanted to go to Sandhurst and needed 3 Ds at ALevel. That's what he got, but he failed the medical which was a big blow and came just at the start of lockdown. Since then he's worked in various fast food restaurants and coffee shops. He's doing OK, has a management position now, but it's not what you dream of for your kids.

Ds2 left school at 16 to do an apprenticeship. Then he ended up wfh during lockdown which was never going to be great for a young person and I've no idea how an apprenticeship was supposed to work on that basis. It didn't and he dropped out. Then he went to college, but that didn't last and he's doing casual work now.

They're fine, they're good lads, they were never any trouble behaviourwise, they pay their way, they're good to their grandparents etc, I just wonder what I should have done differently to get them a better start in adult life. I see parents who don't seem to have done much differently to me currently reporting their DC's firsts and I wonder why.

I'd like to say it doesn't matter because DC are happy, but I'm not sure they are really, especially DS2.

They’ve had the double whammy of Covid in formative years and death of a parent - if they are functioning at all you did an excellent job (whilst you are grieving too). They sound like decent, bright young men - they will make their own way from here.

My DP was an incredibly gifted child, spoke in sentences by 1, taking exams in violin by 5 etc.

Fast forward to adulthood and you wouldn't be able to tell 😂

You’re not on your own op. Average could be our family name in every respect despite flying starts and fantastic potential all round.

On the flip side of exceptional children, I've also known people who weren't but have gone on to be exceptional in their teens or as adults.

I suspect most people have mostly average children, whatever that means. They're just not talked about as much as the questions aren't about children where everything is just sailing along smoothly.

'gifted' children level off in adulthood.

I think it is hard to find decent work now!

I have four which range from one end of the 'ability spectrum' to the other!
Same parents, same parenting, no trauma... different kids!
Eldest.. very very bright, but medicated for ADHD from aged 7 (at schools request to have her assessed)... stellar GCSEs and A levels, Medical School... now a doctor.
BUT has struggled with anxiety and restricted eating ALL her life.

No 2... seemed amazingly bright as a toddler and early years...more so than his sister... slowly slipped down to average. Scraped GCSES as did no work, did a BTEC, went into social care as a job. BUT is now living in Australia, married to a wonderful Aussie he met when she was in the UK on holiday, earning a decent wage in Social Care there where he has moved up the pay scales and making music (his passion)

No 3.. Very bright, hard working, competent. Has her dream job but dear God she works hard and it's relentless and heart breaking.

No 4 has autism, didn't have speech til he was 5, no gcses, special school...
and has a full time job in the supermarket and more savings than the rest of us put together!!!! As far as I'm concerned the fact he has a job is bloody incredible and he deals with prats every day and is amazing.

On the face of it DD1 is 'the success'.. the doctor.

But I would say the two with the best quality of life, are my academic non achievers...

DS1's best friend FAILED his GCSES... it took him about 4 attempts before he finally passed English and Maths, and he did all sorts of jobs after he left school.
In his 20s he decided to go to evening classes... then an access course... then University. And last summer graduated with a first in Physics!!!!
He lost his Dad to a horrific accident when he was 13, and it definitely derailed him for years... but when he found what he wanted to achieve... he did it!

Your boys may well find their 'thing' in their own time, and they sound lovely!

Yes I blame their father. TBF he died when they were in their late teens, which didn't help, obviously

Buried the lede a bit there, OP!

It takes years to get over the death of a parent as a child, doesn’t surprise me at all that your children are drifting. DBro went to uni in his 20s, having essentially disengaged from school in his late teens (our dad also died young). Once he re-engaged, he did very well. But it took time.

Success is measured in different ways though. Being respectful and caring of others is being successful at life. You’ve given them all the skills and strategies to launch, and it is increasingly common for people to change careers entirely.
Your parenting will be reflected in their own parenting and hopefully in generations to come. Their memories of their childhood will be happy. That is a an achievement.

Well that’ll teach me to not RTFT.

A death of a parent is a massive wrecking ball in anyone’s life, let alone children and young people. My dad died when I was 17, and I am still not over it. It set me off on a different path entirely. Let them drift, they’ll find their way.

I think they both sound well equipped to make successful careers, they just need some time. A lot of intelligent, skilled people find that once they leave school their plans don't work out ans end up in similar jobs to your boys...they find their way eventually, they just need time to adjust, come up with a new plan, decide what they want, have some fun etc.

Don't stress, they'll be fine.

Education and parenting hasn’t got anything to do with it. It’s about drive, motivation and vision.
my in laws had basic jobs, he worked in an office 9-5 and she worked part time in child care. My husband left school with 1 gcse in art, we had our first baby at 18 and he now runs a property company that turned over £250k during covid and brexit. His brother left school with GCSEs but worked as a cook in a pub, he now runs a tech company and made his first million within 4 months and has a multi million £ deal with Global investment company.
their cousin went to private school and university in America…he now works in a bar and lives with his parents 🤷🏻‍♀️

They sound nice, no trouble. Most of us aren't particularly good at anything but average at most things. That's good enough. Perhaps persuade ds2 that's there still time to apply for a course/apprenticeship/something. Things are calmer now, so an apprenticeship will be better, or a job with some training opportunities.

This is why all this gifted and talented stuff is a load of shit. Kids develop at different rates and learning things early isn't a sign of greatness. All these labels just mean undue pressure.

I was a very early reader. I was reading adult novels at 7. Can I read any better than any other 42 year old now? No. I am distinctly average.

OP despite the constant 'hustle' rhetoric, plenty of people manage to find their way. Not necessarily 'no GCSE's and a multimillionaire'.
But having come from a prestigious university, then going to the working world and mixing with a lot of people..
Plenty of 'ordinary' jobs. And unlike some other countries the UK is not snobbish avoid qualifications, there are training opportunities, you can go later in life, etc.

The world is full of average people. That's the very definition of average. Humans live a long time these days.

And of course, no need to put down others (I'm from a prestigious university myself) but 'raw' intelligence, the gifted and talented kind doesn't always translate into good employment prospects. I have worked with/turned down plenty of geniuses who were a nightmare to work with. Zero resilience, tolerance or patience for anything that didn't go their way.

Work wity plenty of average people that do great! And also, plenty who like your sons got into uni/ 'a profession' later in life. For various reasons. They've come along quite nicely.

Your sons are doing just fine.

Losing a parent can throw people off course for a while. This has happened to my DC’s friend. He’ll find his way back, as will your boys.

A lot of it comes down to luck. Plus the pandemic has greatly affected young people.

I'm intelligent and well-educated but I piddled around in basic admin roles until I was almost 30. I retrained and have had a successful career since (now 50s). Your kids are still young and finding their way.

I think perhaps when they each discover something that interests and motivates them they may change.

At least they're working and not causing trouble.

Not everyone wants the pressure of high achievement. Happiness and not being stressed has a lot going for it.

I work in a department that we all had to pass a tough professional exam to get into. I often feel like the least intelligent person in the room. But I'd say I'm one of the happiest too, so definitely no correlation or perhaps even inverse correlation?

Anyway, it sounds like PTSD, not being average or otherwise. Have you been getting help and counselling after your DH's death? It sounds like you might be focusing on this idea you have of your DSs as displacement.

I went through a huge traumatic event in my late teens similar to your son and was pushed into continuing education and starting my career when I could have done with a year of counselling or traveling. I got to my thirties and now have a diagnosis of PTSD, anxiety and depression and a neurological condition triggered by stress. My parents don’t have anything to boast about me to their friends and I am regularly near suicidal. Careers are not important right now for your son, he needs your support not your disappointment.

I would absolutely agree and that’s as someone who got the highest a levels in school, the highest first class degree in her faculty from a top 10 university, and progressing an above average earnings career. Having a child with additional needs made me realise I just want all my theee kids to be happy healthy and kind - and solvent (apart from DD with SN).

What's wring with them being just the way they are?
Mumsnet,is obsessed with everyone doing A levels and going ti.Russel.group University,and then earning six figure salaries there is absolutely nothing wrong with just doing an ordinary job and being a decent human being.

When they were young you drove them and pushed up their abilities. Now they are older , they do that for themselves.I
There always , has to be average joe , the world is full of them , we are most of them , nothing wrong in that .

They sound like lovely guys OP and still so young. I didn't figure out what I wanted to do with my life until I was 26/27, I wouldn't put too much pressure on them.

My partner worked in a pub after college. Like your son, he got a management position. He's carried on working in hospitality, slowly progressing up the chain.

He's also incredibly kind and amazing with people. Really empathetic, knows how to read and treat people. That's something a lot of people don't understand about hospitality – what it teaches you. I have a more 'impressive' job but I actually just sit at a computer by myself all day.

Does his mother wish he was a brain surgeon? Er, no. She's proud to have such a hardworking, decent son.