Does anyone else have decidedly average children?

[Dotandtime]

Despite being really quite a determinedly good parent?!

As toddlers both my children were "clever". DS1 knew his letters and numbers (could point to them) before he could speak and he astounded staff with his jigsaw skills in preschool 😆 DS2 walked at 9mo and his nursery said they'd never met such an enquiring mind.

In infant school they were both on the gifted and talented list, which was a thing then, although it was never entirely clear why!

Through junior school they did OK. I turned up for everything supported everything the school did, arranged lots of extracurricular activities had lots of battles over homework By the end of year 6 they both achieved slightly above "expected"

In secondary they seemed to become invisible. Never picked for anything, didnt excel at sport, music, art, we couldn't find their passions. Both did just enough to stay out of trouble but no more and no one seemed to notice that they could/should be doing more. I kept trying, tried to instill a work ethic etc, but there didn't seem to be any consequences or reward at school. They both got above average GCSE grades, but not as good as the Yr 6 SATS suggested they should.

Ds1 wanted to go to Sandhurst and needed 3 Ds at ALevel. That's what he got, but he failed the medical which was a big blow and came just at the start of lockdown. Since then he's worked in various fast food restaurants and coffee shops. He's doing OK, has a management position now, but it's not what you dream of for your kids.

Ds2 left school at 16 to do an apprenticeship. Then he ended up wfh during lockdown which was never going to be great for a young person and I've no idea how an apprenticeship was supposed to work on that basis. It didn't and he dropped out. Then he went to college, but that didn't last and he's doing casual work now.

They're fine, they're good lads, they were never any trouble behaviourwise, they pay their way, they're good to their grandparents etc, I just wonder what I should have done differently to get them a better start in adult life. I see parents who don't seem to have done much differently to me currently reporting their DC's firsts and I wonder why.

I'd like to say it doesn't matter because DC are happy, but I'm not sure they are really, especially DS2.

Tbh it sounds like their secondary school was poor - they did not achieve at their potential due to school allowing coasting. School is hugely important. Combined with natural temperament and a massive trauma and there you are. But although they are academically average, it sounds to me like they may excel at other things. Your eldest is taking on responsibility and both are showing considerable resilience. If I were you I would focus on character rather than achievements and you’ll probably find they come out above average :)

They're fine, they're good lads, they were never any trouble behaviourwise, they pay their way, they're good to their grandparents etc

This is everything, honestly. That’s the goal. You’ve done well! They’ll have wonderful relationships and I’m sure this next decade (they’re early 20s?) things will become clear.

Oh definitely much of my frustration throughout my children rearing life was down to the fact that DC are not at all like me. I've always been conscientious, driven, competitive, a bit of a swot at school and they are completely opposite, like DH. I struggle to understand not caring 😆

I am proud of them and the people they are. I just worry what will become of them, especially if they don't find the right people. DS1 has a GF just like him, she's lovely, but between them they're unlikely to find/take those opportunities. Which is fine if they're happy, but we do live in a world where that's not really possible without a certain level of financial stability.

I also know that as a widow with a sole income, I'm not going to be able to help them financially in quite the same way and DH and I together might have done.

Yes, I agree. They went to the "good" school that everyone wanted for their DC, but if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't make that decision again.

The bereavement hasn't helped, especially DS2 who has lost any motivation he once had, but they always been inclined to coast.

You need to guide them. Ask them about what they want to do in the future e.g travel, buy a house and look at how much those things cost.

Give them example careers they can get into that will earn that salary range e.g pharmacy, project management, physiotherapy.

Look at how to get there (uni) help with their applications and bobs your uncle

I just wanted to say that as a fellow widowed parent, just getting my bright boys to adulthood in one piece will be a success. I had high expectations until their dad died, but they've been through so much. I've done my best to support them and provide a similar lifestyle, but they are affected by it. Therefore, I think you are doing/have done a brilliant job. It sounds like you are very worried about ds2 (as I would be) and you will help him any way you can. Being average after what they've been through is a real achievement in my book.

I had a few bright friends who left school at 16, due to depression, family issues or frankly lack of ambition and direction. They all bumbled around for a few years, in retail, failed civil service training, working in leisure centres.
One did an access course in his mid 20s and went in to teaching, several went into healthcare and similarly went alternative routes into uni later. And one did open university and now has a successful sci fi podcast alongside his day job.

Where they are now isn't forever. They do have options for when they've healed and matured. And if they don't and just carry on as they are, that's okay too.

You sound as if you've done a good job, OP.

I have a friend who came from a very ordinary background without much academic support. She decided, at the age of 24, having left school without A-levels, that she wanted to become a doctor. She did A-levels and went to med school while also working as a cleaner. Along the way she had her children. Now in her 50s and a consultant cardiologist.

She is, like you, looking at her children and wondering what happened. They started out bright and full of promise but both left their (good) school where they had all sorts of opportunities, with underwhelming A-levels. One of them started training to be a plumber but gave up when he reapplied how fiddly and physically demanding the work was: she is devastated by how lazy he seems to be. The other was football-mad at school, got into a football academy but failed to make the grade and is now drifting.

She wonders if, having had parents who gave them a stable, modestly financially secure upbringing (which neither parents enjoyed) they grew up complacent.

Its more the system then anything you’ve done.
3 D’s seems daft when a BTEC would have achieved the same. Would been more interesting and taken the pressure if exams at a tricky time. But because BTEC’s are seen as for thick kids the bright but not so focused kids don’t take them and then get rubbish results because they get bored of A levels.
The apprenticeship was a joke with Covid.

The best steer is to get jobs that pay well pronto. Once they are earning well in their 20’s anything is possible. Doesn’t matter what it is.

The Sandhurst medical can be appealed if you think it’s wrong. I know someone rejected because his dad had a heart condition. Took 2 years of doctors going back and forth to prove it wasn’t an inherited problem and they’re in now.

I'm sorry, that actually made me snort. You don't think I've spent 20+ years doing that?

He did appeal and won the Sandhurst medical, but it took two years, his father had died in the meantime, they wanted him to start the whole recruitment process again, including a new medical and he basically said sod 'em. Can't blame him tbh.

I was achieving above average in Maths by age 10.
By age 12 I dropped to below average and I've never clawed my way back. I struggle to help my 7year old with their homework!

I didn't try in high school, and scraped my GCSEs that I bothered to go for.
My first job was out of necessity than choice and now I have years of experience and found a job I love that suits my mindset.

I know many people who found their ideal job in their late 20/30's or where the right opportunity just came up at a different time.
They're working, they're learning work ethic and to be honest going to university or getting a degree isn't a measure of intelligence anymore than years of experience in a role you've got the knowledge from.

Whatever you do please don't let them know you are disappointed in them. That's a killer for any self belief, ambition and frankly determination to succeed.

They sound pretty good to me. Average can be happy and successful (if you define success as happiness which I do)

I'm sure most of us have average kids - whatever that means 😁

Op, regarding your kids, they've been through a lot and I think that's probably affecting them more than anyone's realised. I have friends who went through a loss in their teenage years and it affected them in all sorts of ways - inability to focus, actual physical illness brought on by stress and anxiety. Gradually they have come through it but it has been a massive setback and really altered their view on life.

This is the real crux of my concern, I don't think they are happy and I don't think they're doing the things needed to make that happen. I don't mean money, but a sense of purpose and achievement.

Early school was a doddle for me and my siblings. We didn't have to try at anything to sail through primary school at the top of the class. All of us then dropped off hugely as we approached A levels because you can't get an A level with no effort (especially at that time when a big proportion of the grade was coursework). We just didn't learn to try, to fail, to work hard at that young age when you're learning all the other skills and by the time the work required time and effort we hadn't developed the attitude for it. All three of us are the same now in that we will now work bloody hard at anything we genuinely want to do but otherwise motivation is in short supply.

My daughter could easily follow this path. Reading/maths require pretty much no effort for her. Reading long chapter books at 5 and enjoying/understanding them etc. I'm desperate for her not to follow my path in terms of work ethic so I'm deliberately trying to design things so that she experiences stuff she's not good at and I encourage her to try hard with it. She does gymnastics. She has no natural talent for this but she goes every week and I have encouraged her to practise outside the classes and I make a big fuss of any improvement whatsoever. I'm basically trying to teach her to be motivated to persevere at the stuff she's not good at. However, deep down I suspect this might not make any difference.

@Dotandtime so what do they say?

OP, I think you need to take a step back. Your boys need to find their own motivation, and lead their own lives and chosen careers, not be continually chivvied to fit your plan for them.
They might have inherited their dad’s laid back temperament, and will be much more content than the driven rat racers. Or they might reassess their lives later and start studying as mature students, but it needs to be up to them.
Males do tend to mature later than females, and our education system is not well suited to them, with major exams coinciding with their maximum point of adolescent rebellion, testosterone flare, and emotional instability.
Sit back, congratulate yourself that you have produced decent, law abiding, nice chaps who are a credit to you, and just wait to see where they go from here.

As long as they're happy though, right? For some people work is just a means to an end, so if it enables them to do the things they do want in life, it's all good.

If sounds like you have done a great job, OP.

Your DCs will find their path. Not everyone follows the traditional route.

DB failed his GCSEs twice, got a job in a supermarket, then a basic admin job. Then he went to 6th form college, retook maths and English (and passed), did a BTEC and landed himself a place in a top uni. He has a good life now - wife, child, house, holiday every year and a decent job. He's even a pretty decent human being too!

If they think casual work is adequate then I'd be expecting them to move out in order to live off it. Concentrate the mind. Being privileged as a child is one thing, but unless they have trust funds they can live off until old age, then they need to be able to support themselves now.

Yes, this is it. I'm really not going to chuck out my recently bereaved children, but it's fine to say they're OK so long as they're happy, when they're effectively living a life well beyond their means.

I do agree OP that they need to start to become more independent. It becomes far too easy to stay at home if they're happy and comfortable there and can spend most their earnings on fun things.

I'd open some conversations about what they want their lifestyle to look like in ten years time, what sort of salary will fund that and what sorts of jobs earn that type of money. It might give them the drive to do it.

I think they sound like really great young man. & it sounds like they’ve had a difficult time with losing their Dad & the impact of COVID.

Its anecdotal but my (lovely) DH is very bright but was completely non academic at school, drifted well into his 20s & then in his late 20s found a job he loved & excels at. I think it does take longer for some young people to find their groove.