Does anyone else have decidedly average children?

[Dotandtime]

Despite being really quite a determinedly good parent?!

As toddlers both my children were "clever". DS1 knew his letters and numbers (could point to them) before he could speak and he astounded staff with his jigsaw skills in preschool 😆 DS2 walked at 9mo and his nursery said they'd never met such an enquiring mind.

In infant school they were both on the gifted and talented list, which was a thing then, although it was never entirely clear why!

Through junior school they did OK. I turned up for everything supported everything the school did, arranged lots of extracurricular activities had lots of battles over homework By the end of year 6 they both achieved slightly above "expected"

In secondary they seemed to become invisible. Never picked for anything, didnt excel at sport, music, art, we couldn't find their passions. Both did just enough to stay out of trouble but no more and no one seemed to notice that they could/should be doing more. I kept trying, tried to instill a work ethic etc, but there didn't seem to be any consequences or reward at school. They both got above average GCSE grades, but not as good as the Yr 6 SATS suggested they should.

Ds1 wanted to go to Sandhurst and needed 3 Ds at ALevel. That's what he got, but he failed the medical which was a big blow and came just at the start of lockdown. Since then he's worked in various fast food restaurants and coffee shops. He's doing OK, has a management position now, but it's not what you dream of for your kids.

Ds2 left school at 16 to do an apprenticeship. Then he ended up wfh during lockdown which was never going to be great for a young person and I've no idea how an apprenticeship was supposed to work on that basis. It didn't and he dropped out. Then he went to college, but that didn't last and he's doing casual work now.

They're fine, they're good lads, they were never any trouble behaviourwise, they pay their way, they're good to their grandparents etc, I just wonder what I should have done differently to get them a better start in adult life. I see parents who don't seem to have done much differently to me currently reporting their DC's firsts and I wonder why.

I'd like to say it doesn't matter because DC are happy, but I'm not sure they are really, especially DS2.

. I was clever but not very motivated and now despite my degrees etc I'm working on a zero hours contract in a warehouse. I think they all have such high aspirations because of the difficult upbringing they have had - frequently having no money, living in cramped conditions etc. They all are very independent, any hobbies are taken to the extreme eg dd2 has been in the world championships for her sport a few times. Ds is 20, is ND and got the top marks in his first year exams last year and was awarded a large sum of money. He had speech problems and bilateral sensory processing disorder when he was younger but he has excelled in so many areas. At a year 6 parents evening at his state primary one teacher called him God's gift to the world! I'm not sure about that but he is inspiring.
The main thing I did was send all of them private for secondary, tutoring them myself for the entrance exams.

You sent 4 dc to private, surely you had to be very motivated to afford those fees?!

I think the hard bit is worry and fear as a parent they won't find their way - it's trying to support and offer encouragement and offer ways forward - without being overbearing and pushy and imposing what you want on them - it's hard path to to find - and everyone say it's all fine but low pay and cost of living these days is actually a bloody hard lifestyle

Great point I just want my dc to be happy & money isn't everything but on the other hand life is so expensive

Success is measured by happiness, not achievements.
My two are very driven, but not sure whether that's due to them losing a parent whilst young. I read one in three USA presidents lost a parent whilst young, adversity can spur some people on.
My eldest is 22, has a good job in finance, studies hard alongside working full time, his mentors comment on how driven he is but l can't help sometimes but wonder, is happy?

My brother had a difficult time as a teenager with some trauma, although not the loss of a parent. He bumbles and then found his way into computers. He's now very successful and that gentle laid back manner you talk about makes him a brilliant and dad-like manager for smart young people who would otherwise struggle. The dad-like bit isn't a coincidence. He blossomed when he met a partner who needed care and is a very devoted dad.

IMHO so many boys are natural carers. They need to be needed. If you don't have one and it is reasonable for you in lifestyle terms maybe consider a dog and put DS2 in charge. They can be a life changing relationship at that age.

I haven't read all the replies but it sounds like they're good kids and are working and paying their way. You just never know what might be around the corner, something may turn up for them that will pique their interest and change their direction. Or it might not, meeting a partner might alter things too. I think people like this are underrated in society. Sounds like you did plenty right x

My brother was working in a chippy at 20. By 28, he was a fully qualified accountant working as a finance manager (now financial controller). Same for me to some extent. I started off with no career path (just office type jobs) and also took a few years out mid twenties to go travelling but still well into a progressional career by the time I was 30. they are still so young, not everyone knows what they want to do at that age. And low stress jobs aren't bad to have when you have no responsibilities yet!!

Are you with their father?

They are in primary school and they don't know what theyn want to do yet and you think this makes them lazy? you say they are lazy like their father? That is a whole bunch of negative emotions and expectations you are putting on them.

I did not know what i wanted to do until i was 24 years old. After I had gone to university to just do subjects that interested me. But trust me i am not lazy and I am driven. I had a pretty big international career working for a majorm international organisation. I have 2 Masters degrees. I retrained as a lawyer in my 40s while i was still working.

But from primary, throughout secondary i was a dreamer who wrote stories and thought only of horses. Thankfully my parents did not label me as 'lazy' or look for traits in me that they did not like about each other and judge me for it.

I am actually quite shocked at how you speak of your very young children.

We can only affect DCs outcomes to a limited extent. There is also a genetic element. Maybe they were early developers but peaked young.

@Dotandtime

Yes I blame their father. TBF he died when they were in their late teens, which didn't help, obviously.

Wait! What????? You are blaming their father for what exactly? For dying????

Wow. Brilliant partial quote. I said exactly why if you want to read the whole post.

I had an “invisible boy”. My eldest got lots of attention (not always positive) because he was AS, my older twin was Mr Sociable, his brother not so much. Small group of similar friends, not sporty. However, despite tricky late teens (being an idle git) he’s worked, moved away, got a lovely gf a flat and has just finished uni with a first. Dd who was classed as GT, incredibly popular,got moderate GCSEs and a levels and a decent second. But is working in a cafe.

Also, it’s not uncommon for a bereavement to set young adults back, sometimes by about ten years. Some young adults, especially young men, are late developers. They main retrain and do something else in a few years.

This is a really interesting comment and you’ve got me thinking about my own son who is very caring.

Any consolation OP son has a data analysis degree still no job other than as a KP at weekends 🥺

The world needs average people. If everyone was amazingly talented, life would be very difficult. I think we should celebrate being average more than we do!

Nothing matters more than them being happy, safe and healthy. If that's achieved job done, very very well!@

I think the pandemic has changed a lot of things for young people. Stalling at that stage is really tough and I think it will take a decade or so to 'recover' and some never will. It's definitely affected both of my DC's education/employment and outlook.
Aside from that I really empathise with the 'passion' conundrum. DS who has just turned 18 and has probably got the equivalent of 2 A levels in a vocational course, doesn't want to go to uni and has almost no ideas about what he wants (except to make money) NEVER excelled at anything or had a passion for any sport, music or activity. I think we tried 17 different things from 3 to 16 and he dropped out of every one, or never really got off the ground. And many of them were things he had wanted todo, not just me trying to push him!
So, it's partly personality/ learning style/ neurodiversity (dyslexia and all the signs of ADHD) whereas his sister always had a passion for drama, singing and dancing. She coasted through school, but has struggled with her degree and is taking an extra year to complete it, so will come out with about £60,000 debt.
Everyone is different and I think young people are taking much longer to work out what they want nowadays, so I say just go with the flow and don't start to stress until they are over 25!

I thought the OP was happy about them working but is worried about the future and long term - that they can afford to live a decent lifestyle and move out etc. and not sure they are happy currently.

I know a many examples where people late 20 early 30s got it together - found a purpose or got motivated to improve their job prospects.

I can only think of two where there are long term issues both now very close to 50 - one my brother stuck in min wage insecure employment though has council flat - but it too rock bottom homelessness for him to sort himself out and prior he had false starts and bail outs galore - and friend from University - disappointed degree grade railed and did master got some work started PhD got kicked off went home to parents and never done anything since - he had support and suggestions but nothing.

I worry about my DC there's no family money to fall back on - DH and I can help with a roof over their heads but beyond that not really. Education gave DH and I many more options - so keen for our kids to do well but I can't do it for them and they do have to find their own way.

Nothing except actively protest against the lockdowns at the time. They destroyed opportunities for many young people and caused irrepairable damage to children.

I think lockdown has significantly impacted both your boys, and many others of course, and they may spend a few more years readjusting. It's brilliant that they're both working.

Have you heard of growth mindset? Well when I was young all I heard adults say was how amazingly clever I was. I got moved up a year at primary school, had to do Year 6 twice. Went to a top private school but never achieved what I could have done because I had been conditioned into not working hard and thinking everything came easy to me. Didn't revise for GCSEs and got fairly good but not exceptional grades.In sixth form teachers wouldn't give me a reference for Oxford because they said my work ethic was appalling and I'd embarrass the school. Ended up scraping an undeserved 2:2 at a fairly good uni after nearly getting thrown out for not doing the work. Struggled to succeed in the workplace for years because of my lack of drive and organisation. Finally after 20 years I began to understand myself and overcome the damage of fixed mindset thinking. Habits from early childhood are very hard to unlearn. My parents only ever wanted the best for me and were very down to earth and not pushy. None of it is their fault. We are much less fixed mindset in schools these days but many teachers still categorise children into high, middle and low ability, without realising the damage this can do to their self-esteem and future chances.

They sound like lovely boys who have had a lot to deal with. They are kind and pay their way . . . . They'll find their paths.

Most people are average though.

It's normal. Your boys are completely normal and lovely young men.

I have two boys.

DS1 went through school in the top sets, coasted in 6th form, got caught up in strikes and covid in uni, still coasting. Has no idea what he wants to do or where he wants to be in his life. But he gets up everyday, goes to work, does a good job and comes home again. I sit on my hands to stop pushing him where I think he might get to if he actually put a bit of effort into his days. He's happy, he's independent, pays his way and, for now, seems at ease with where he is.

DS2 puts so much effort into everything he does. Worked,really hard at school and in 6th form but never really got the grades he wanted or felt he deserved. He had a couple of disjointed years in uni during covid but motivated himself, made plans for his workload, never stopped putting the effort in. He graduated with a 1st, knows exactly what he wants to do and how to get it, worked full time in the nhs for a year and is soon off to London to do a masters degree which will enable him to achieve the level he wants to get to. He's already making plans for after the masters. But he puts a lot of pressure on himself to succeed, he is self motivated, insanely independent, pays his way and is relentless in his pursuit of his goals.

They are both NT, neither have had any trauma in their lives, we are a calm, chilled household in leafy suburbia. They are just extremely different people, chalk and cheese would be too close for them.

I encourage, praise, help when requested, but essentially they will do,what they do in their own time. It's ok to be happy 'plodding along'. Most people find something they like eventually, very few have clear goals and expectations right from the start.

They sound like lovely young men.

Raising children has changed a lot, when I was growing up in the 1980s no one’s parents cared too much about what we were up to, I think we had maybe one parents evening a year. You were just expected to turn up, take your exams and get a job.

Now people are so competitive, pretty much everyone has a kid who is a genius, gifted at sports, beautiful, unusual, praised by teachers, welcomed by universities, sought after by employers.

It’s just bullshit to make insecure parents feel superior. Your kids sound lovely, most of us are average aren’t we?