Middle class, aspirational parenting. Why is it loathed on mumsnet?

[Moonandstarz]

Why is aspirational parenting slagged off on mumsnet so much? Surely every child deserves at least one person who will push & advocate for them? Would the country not be in a much better place if all parents were slightly or a lot pushier for their dc?

Actually, speaking of the 'go fund me' boarding school parent, it looks like they did get a substantial amount of donations - over £100,000 in fact, and now the begging bowl is out again to fund the summer and schools.

Though they say they live in a council estate. Not middle class at all.

@Noicant exactly how I feel too. I will do everything for my own children & will not feel guilty for it either. No one else will do it for them except DH & I nor would I expect anyone else to! If they need anything ever that I can't provide, I will bang on the relevant doors to get what they need because that is my job as their mother.

Again another example of a parent advocating for their child & getting what they need. More power to them & best of luck to the child.

Having aspirations is about having high expectations of your child, not about giving them things that other people can't afford. So aspirations for their behaviour, the type of person you would like them to be etc. Sounds like you do already have aspirations for your DC based on this criteria 😊.

Advocating of course, why wouldn't you.

School fees for talented dance children the most talented are fully funded, the rest, rightly or wrongly, don't receive funding. Most people wouldn't go to the newspapers about it. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I don't approve of the begging bowl out to fund their summer - donations already over £3000. They already received £16,000 more than the original target the first time. Most people wouldn't go to that extreme or go to the newspapers

LolaSmiles - I suppose I don't see inclusive opportunities as 'lowering the bar'. Again - I think both should be available. (I admit I do get frustrated when I'm in a period where I'm not getting challenging singing for whatever reason - one of my choirs/projects in hiatus or whatever. I still do my parish choirs though). And I suppose aren't many of those parents who go through life complaining things are unfair (who I don't doubt exist, though I've never known any) the very 'pushy MC parents' this thread is about - 'pushing for', and often getting, opportunities even when their kids are mediocre?
I don't think having a range of activities and opportunities for people with different levels of experience and aptitudes lowers the bar. Your experience of choirs sounds similar to mine.

I do think an insistence that what is 'fair' involves limiting opportunities for talented young people with aptitude, which ensures that those with talent and potential lose out unless their parents have funds to spend a lot of money.

As a working class child I'd have lost out on a range of opportunities if the fairness police on Mumsnet had their way, and I'd have been the child that they'd claim they're on a moral crusade for. My parents had aspirations for us, didn't have the resources to throw at us the way some on here do, but they definitely had aspirations and we did well by being fortunate to have decent teachers.

If if can offer my DC more then I will do because that's human nature. Why would I want to not give them opportunities and input purely because "I went to a state comprehensive and did ok"?

In my experience pushy and aspirational aren't the same.

Though I think that's an extreme example of advocating.

I think it's perfectly OK... This parent is doing all they can for their child & getting what they want. They are not moaning or pointing fingers they are getting cash to get their child a better education. Good on them for having aspirations & putting themselves out there to get the best for their child.

@LolaSmiles "moral crusade" perfect description! Sums some of the posters up perfectly 😁

I take your point, but I think that's an extreme case and all I can see they're doing is asking for money again - we could all do that if we had the nerve. In future their child might not thank them for having their photo, and background hardship story, plastered all over the newspapers and internet.

Having looked I don't think there is any particular talent or achievements there either to justify it and if there had been they'd have received money from the funding audition.

But isn't that the point.. Sometimes to get your child what you feel your child deserves (& every child deserves a great education) you need to be brazen & thick skinned.. The parents are championing their child & truely believe they deserve better & obviously so do many others as they have raised so much money.

I probably would have donated myself if they were struggling to reach the 90,000, based on the hardship story, and I think that's why people donated. It wasn't mentioned that she failed at the second audition for funding because that wouldn't have made such a good story (though that could have been the newspapers doing).
I think asking for more money doesn't sit well with me.

You're probably right @Moonandstarz but it's far too brazen case of advocating for me. I think the exaggeration of the talents also, which wouldn't be obvious to all.

Will the mother be thanked for it. I'm not so sure...

@nevessarynamechange I totally get where you're coming from but I do think that parents can take inspiration from her brazeness & unwavering belief that her child deserves more. If every child had a parent willing to to this level I can guarantee you the education system would be different..

Mostly it's not middle class in the traditional sense, it's people of working class backgrounds who may be have gone to university or financially have done better than their parents, can afford things, and are desperately trying not to be associated with their working class routes. AspirationaThese are the mums forcing kids to do activities sinxe they didn't get to do any extra curricular activities themselves, wearing chavtastic trainers with big Veja logos drink the weirdest coffee and do holidays they'd rather not be doing.
Actual British middle class people with three generations of privately schooled grandparents and children of generations of doctors and lawyers have nothing to prove and have no interest in signing kids up to a thousand activities, sports and experiences by 3 month old.
Aspirational working class you mean.

Why it's despised - because its forced, fake and usually abusive and toxic to their children.

Yes it would certainly be interesting.

I think this particular case rankled some of the ballet community more than anything, though I don't think (hope) it was because of the aspirational part, of a single parent, from a working class background, trying to make a better life for her daughter.

Sorry you meant aspirational parenting - but basically the same thing. Genuinely middle class people are usually supportive.

Agreed. I'm not convinced the children will thank them for it when they're old enough to realise.

I know two people with children at boarding school (dance, but nothing to do with my other posts) and in the holidays they have summer school after summer school scheduled in their break. Some of them do appear to be living through their children and making them achieve goals they themselves could never reach.

Another poor girl, very talented, found the pressure too much and gave up completely, but almost had some sort of mental breakdown first.

nevessarynamechange
I feel sorry for children in those situations and also don't think the child whose parents had the begging bowl out online is going to thank them for it years down the line.

There's a line between aspirational and pushy/living through a child, and some parents get it wrong.

an insistence that what is 'fair' involves limiting opportunities for talented young people with aptitude, which ensures that those with talent and potential lose out unless their parents have funds to spend a lot of money

I don't think this is a fair (!) characterisation of my position. Again - I'm all for children (and adults) gaining opportunities on merit. Mine have done all sorts of extra-curriculars over the years and the eldest has been in schemes and things that select on ability. I suppose rather than advocating for things like this not to happen, I'm expressing unease with a broader attitude of resource-hoarding (if i can put it like that) that expresses itself (for example) in the conniptions over contextual Oxbridge offers and the 'why should I help other people's children to get ahead'.

As far as inclusivity goes - to go back to the choir thing as an example (after which I'll shut up about it) - imagine two girls, decent but not brilliant singers, don't get in on audition. The parents of one can afford singing lessons, so off she goes and has them and gets in next time. The other's parents can't, so she tries to sing at home (when the sibling she shares her room with isn't telling her to shut up because she needs to concentrate on her homework) but can't teach herself technique and doesn't get in on the next audition either. A non-auditioning choir would give her that opportunity - and maybe she'll get very good as her voice and musicality mature. The girl with the lessons shouldn't not have that opportunity - it isn't (or shouldn't be) one or the other - but everyone should have the opportunity to develop and blossom without having to be naturally brilliant from the start (just more pressure and strain for the non-privileged to live up to - no chance to take your time, make mistakes, not be great from the off).

Because anything grabby and self-serving is just morally repugnant.

And this goes across class and money barriers. It’s one of first injustices all children see - this is why people hate nepotism, sports cheats, pushy parents and benefit fraudsters - ultimately “it’s not fair” on everyone else.

But as you say op you’re thick skinned and brazen. So you won’t give a shit about moral reasons or doing the right thing.

On a different subject, the 'please pay for my voluntourism holiday' type thing has something quite repugnant about it IMO.

@Screamingabdabz Ididn't say I personally was brazen or thick skinned but I would be for my dc if I had to.

The government have systems, all types of teachers & authorities in place to help parents & children & they are paid by the taxpayer to do just that.
It's simply not my problem.
Other parents & families are not on my rader. My children are my only concern, not yours or anyone elses.

" "moral crusade" perfect description! Sums some of the posters up perfectly"

AKA wanting to live in a fair society. Because that's best for that society at large and for the individuals that make it up.

@CurlewKate as stated many times above that's why we have a government, local authorities, teachers & an education system. The current system isn't working, the moral crusaders aren't making any difference.. If each parent or guardian fought tooth & nail for their own child it would be much more powerful & change will come.
Too much blame, finger pointing & passing the buck in this country.