Middle class, aspirational parenting. Why is it loathed on mumsnet?

[Moonandstarz]

Why is aspirational parenting slagged off on mumsnet so much? Surely every child deserves at least one person who will push & advocate for them? Would the country not be in a much better place if all parents were slightly or a lot pushier for their dc?

I think so far as parenting children is concerned most parents do the best that they can with the circumstances they find themselves in.

I've had some really bleak years in education with a child who school refused due to high anxiety and autism. I ended up taking him out of education to save his life. The opposite of pushy parenting and I received a load of criticism. This wasn't because of a lack of aspiration it was just survival.

No amount of tutoring or hothousing would have assisted in that scenario.

Roll on a few year and he's doing just fine, better in fact than some of the hot housed kids with 'aspirational' parents.

Education in this country is in a pitiful state which is why inequality is becoming larger. I'm not convinced that all children receive an appropriate education at all in secondary schools because the teachers are spending so much time in crowd control they can't do the jobs they are paid to do. This doesn't mean that the parents don't have aspirations just that they don't have the means to change schools or supplement education.

Because my DC is not an extension of me, he is his own person. My dreams might not match up to his dreams. It's his life, not mine.

I'm a poor, uneducated, working class single mum who got pregnant at 17, never pushed DS to do anything and he is on track to get top marks in his GCSEs with aspirations to be a vet.

I absolutely hate the word performance parenting. It's completely non sensical. All it shows is how self absorbed and arrogant the person using that word is that they think other people change their behaviour and how they treat or interact with their children purely to impress them
The thing is some people DO performance parent and they DO want people to notice.

The vast majority of us manage to chat to our children about a range of topics, read with them, and generally get on with parenting without much fuss.

The performance parenting topic always goes the same way:

Group 1 - talk to their children, engage with their children, go through life hardly noticing other parents who are also talking to their children because it's not that big a deal, but they do notice when someone has the voice of a fog horn loudly ensuring everyone can hear about (insert topic here) and quietly rolls their eyes at the silly performance.

Group 2 - probably use a fog horn voice and performance parent, but come online saying silly things like "some people can't even stand to see parents engaging with their children, they're probably feeling guilty about being on their phones the whole time, they're probably super insecure when they hear little Daniel recalling his mandarin lessons and me talking about him scoring highly in his test. Can you believe that anyone would object to people simply talking to their children (tilts head). How self absorbed to think that the fog horn voices and endless looks around to check if anyone notices might be more about the adult ego than the child" followed by a lot of whataboutery to explain why the entire supermarket needs to hear oh Timothy, what type of mushroom is this? Yes it's a porcini mushroom, it's different to the other types of mushrooms we eat. We eat lots of different mushrooms. What other types of mushroom shall we list? Wonderful. You're so adventurous witj your food How many do we have? Let's count them in Spanish. You did so well in your Spanish test at school. What score did you get? 100% oh yes, how wonderful of you. Mrs Smith said you're naturally talented.

Meanwhile all the other parents are talking to their children, doing the shop and quietly wishing the above parent would STFU! 🤣

No this is a really good example of advocating for your child when no one else would. Well done you for doing the right thing for your child & now he's thriving.
Many, many others wouldn't have the courage of their convinctions to take out of school initially.

It it bollocks loathed on here! I thought I was middle class until I came on MN..spent days wondering what "DS is going for his gold D of E" and "we go to the local NT property" meant 😂Mumsnet is the home of the 6ft 2, athletically built, rugby playing sons who go on gap years before their "RG" uni (there's another one!) and willowy DD's who have their own little car at 17 and work at the stables in the summers. All the children have neurodivergence and yet somehow they all go to top universities..
Having discovered I am common as muck, I DO have aspirations for my kids, as do most people, but I do think the absolute need for children to succeed as all rounders, and get good careers AND travel AND play an instrument etc etc is a very MC obsession.

@DizzyRascal if you read through the thread we have had some champagne socialists commenting that it's up to other parents to improve the lives of other children (not Rishi who has his girls in Wycombe Abbey!)

The thing is that there isn't a definition on MN of what each class consists of. I suspect on MN 'working class' is referring to now what is known as the underclass. Ie lifetime unemployed, drug/alcohol abuse, single mothers with multiple children to different fathers. The stereotypical sofa in the front garden where everyone congregates to drink white lightening whilst the dc are running around, whereabouts unknown. School social workers involved because of lack of attendance, dirty clothes, lack of food in the fridge as it's all gone on fags and booze.
I'm from a LMC background, or maybe even UWC. I'm educated to postgrad level, am well travelled, dc at grammar school. I'm also a long term benefits recipient due to being a carer so my dc were/are FSM pupils. I am very supportive of my dc's interests and aspirations. I scour opportunities for them, make accounts on TSR to see what's going on and what universities really want. I feel my MC friends are much more laid back, they don't really aspire to any particular path, just "as long as they are happy". They have the money to prop them up on a gap year or supporting them through a Film Studies degree. There is no rush for these children. I know a school mum who's ds is now 28. He has started and stopped 3 different degrees, numerous college courses and various random pie in the sky businesses. They are paying for his rent, his car and giving him 'pocket money'. They feel he is still young and will carve his own pathway eventually. This is a massive luxury to most people, but when you have money you don't need to aspire to anything.

Oh and I tutor willing children online for free, as I know not all dc have parents that are able to support them/access information required. I very much see this as my duty.

That isn't my classification of WC at all. I see WC as my grandparents eg lived in the same street all their lives, both worked in the local mills/factories, good local community but never looked outside of that community and certainly never had aspirations to do so. However they were able to use the grammar system to enable my Dad to get to Cambridge, do a PhD + become a self employed businessman thereby moving him up into LMC.
The underclass you describe has always been the underclass. To be WC you have to work for a living.

@feralunderclass just out of curiosity if the government & Rishi Sunak don't see it as their duty to tutor willing kids for for free why is it your duty? Especially as you have your own dc who need you?

@Moonandstarz " if you read through the thread we have had some champagne socialists commenting that it's up to other parents to improve the lives of other children"

Of course it's up to all of us-"champagne socialists" (guilty as charged) included to do what we can to improve the lives of all children, not just our own. Don't see why that's a point of dispute.

@DizzyRascal ha, I'm with you and from a similar situation.

@Beezknees well done that lad (and his mum) !!

My son did very averagely in his GCSEs (lazy sod but lovely) hated 6th form coz he couldn't get by doing no home work, did an IT apprenticeship - (his best subject) loved it, now 25 earns very decent money, has 8 years work under his belt , lives in London. He just wasn't disciplined enough for academia, but is for work! We need to treat children as individuals with different talents,

What LolaSmiles said re performance parenting vs parenting.

I think there is some wilful missing of the point going on here. Of course I'm not going to stop reading to my children or paying for their music lessons or taking them to museums because others don't. But I will (and do) go into my daughter's school weekly and read a book - a proper book by a quality/classic author, not some formulaic series - to her class, chapter by chapter, and talk to them about it using a rich vocabulary, because I know some of them don't get read to much at home. If I can afford it, I'll donate some money to the music school to allow someone without the funds to access lessons. I won't complain that contextual offers are taking Oxbridge places away from the children of 'engaged parents who value education and have made sacrifices', but welcome the recognition of systemic and structural inequalities and the attempt to do something about it. And I will (and do) communicate our values clearly to my children and show them the link between achievement, focus and opportunity, but I'll let them find their own paths and not co-opt their talents as a reflection on me.

I also think there's a vital place for mediocrity (i.e. inclusivity) alongside excellence - we need both. I sing in both chamber choirs with high standards and struggling parish choirs that my voice helps keep going. The latter is no less important than the former.

No, not at all. The education system in Ireland is far less intense.

Ireland does have a number of private schools (Uk public) but far fewer and at a much lower cost.

My children are in state schools and competitive parenting just isn’t as much of a thing and we are in a wealthy part of Dublin .

ireland, however, has major issues around faith schools. If you are not catholic or willing to live with a certain amount of religion in schooling, you have very little choice

If every parent /guardian started pushing & advocating for their own children the education system would improve. The government & mps push, advocate & get the very best education for their own children. They are not bothered about mine. That's my job.
As I said upthread I'm on dc's schools PTA & carpool for hockey & swimming. That's the most I can do without cutting into time & resourses that is for my dc. Other parents & children aren't on my radar or are my concern.

@Moonandstarz because without sounding wanky I feel that I have been blessed or very fortunate to know the system quite well and how to navigate it. There are refugees who literally are desperate for their dc to get a good education, but they don't have the language, knowledge or tools to go about it. It's mostly refugees I tutor, they all say they want to do medicine, but then tell me that they are only doing 3 GCSE's and Prince's Trust. I try to help them to see what their options are and how to go about it. They are very keen to do well but English might be a big barrier so I help as much as I can with that. In GCSE eng lang for example, the questions are very repetitive so constant practise with set questions can make a big difference. You'd be surprised at how many parents aren't aware that there are past papers and mark schemes online.
I believe in working towards an equal society and I make a point of setting time aside for 3-4 hours a week to give disadvantaged children a leg up. I think if we all did that to some extent things might be a more level playing field.

I do think there are a few mumsnetters who had great careers but gave them up for having children and now treat their children's lives and aspirations like a work project- because they don't have anyone to manage anymore - hence they can be quite controlling of their children's lives.

I think it is fantastic that you do this but it is also taking away the responsibility of the government to offer such support. Obviously I am aware that they don't but they SHOULD and we should hold them to account for it. This was always the issue with the Big Society concept, it removes responsibility from the government and puts that onto individuals.

Good on you @feralunderclass if you can afford the time I can imagine it's very rewarding.

People should take more responsibility for their actions.

Aspirational isn't just middle class.

And does it really matter what MN says?

End of the day we all go back to real life and carry on as we see fit to do so.

Agreed but it shouldn't be up to individuals to have to offer support for refugees because our government isnt willing to fund them!
You clearly agree that parents should take responsibility for being aspirational for their own children and it shouldn't be left to other people to support the children of parents who don't value education.

@twistyizzy excellent points. It's even like the community neighbourhood clean ups & village, beach clean ups it removes responsibly from the government.
Ultimately it is the education system & government who should advocate for every child & provide them with a decent education. Until that happens it's up to every parent & guardian to stop complaining & pointing fingers. Every parent needs to fight & push for their own dc to help them find their way.

@Moonandstarz "Other parents & children aren't on my radar or are my concern."

Fair enough. I'm very glad I don't think like that.