Middle class, aspirational parenting. Why is it loathed on mumsnet?

[Moonandstarz]

Why is aspirational parenting slagged off on mumsnet so much? Surely every child deserves at least one person who will push & advocate for them? Would the country not be in a much better place if all parents were slightly or a lot pushier for their dc?

I don't see this at all. It seems to be the accepted norm for parenting on MN - especially with older children / teenagers . I was a fairly relaxed parent and always felt a bit out of sync with the expected norm.

A lot of my friends are immigrants, and my husband too, and they tend to be the pushiest as they have relocated thousands of miles away for a better life, or their parents did, and they don't tend to then just get there and not make any effort to see that better life. I live in a huge international community and people aren't pushy in a nasty way, more again just working in the system to make sure their children have what they need to be healthy and reasonably educated. They aren't training them from dawn til dusk.

@DollyParkin
I don't think t's a "true" middle class thing because the old-style middle class don't need to be pushy.

But I think that in education, sports, extra-curriculars, the thing that is disliked is parents "gaming" the system, or behaving like "Dance Moms" - basically trying to gain advantage by putting other children & families down, or buying advantage, instead of just working hard, being disciplined, and being polite & generous.

That's just nasty behaviour. And ultimately, if you manipulate or buy your way into something, rather than using talent & ability, it will backfire at some point.

Agree

A few reasons.

I think people don't like to end up feeling crap about themselves and their own parenting style. And people worry that kids are being overworked etc.. some people think it's all criticising them. For example my kid watches TV, if yours doesn't and you think tv makes people stupid, that's up to you. Some people would see that as judging me but I'd say good for you.

In England there's also a funny attitude to wealth and education. Think when we were back in school how kids who studied were mocked not just by children, but parents.

I think it's a shame. I get slagged off all the time because I try to feed my kids healthy food.

Exactly my point.
Money buys privilege.
And a lot of people who have made money flipping houses etc as LL's are working class

I don't understand why people put class over money when they discuss equality. People being able to be 'anything bthey want' is one thing. But In terms of access to resources it's really money not class that's more relevant.

I think you’ll find it’s performance parenting that’s loathed on mumsnet, I don’t think anyone would be against parents wanting the best possible life for their child
I think it's both in places, combined with an unhealthy obsession with what other people do for their children.

There's also a culture in places of promoting mediocrity (eg school sport should be for anyone who wants a go and it's mean to put the best players on the team, school music should be for anyone even if they've no musicality because it's elitist to expect musicality in a music ensemble). Then to really ramp up the incoherence, it's unfair for schools to identify and nurture talent because they should focus on keeping the bar nice and low, but then if parents observe this and pay/arrange for their children to have their talents nurtured. 🤷‍♀️

It's the same sort of poor logic where people will argue their children are doing brilliantly in an amazing state school so people who choose private education must be pushy middle class parents who are trying to buy their way in life (often ignoring that the house prices in catchment for brilliant state schools cost a small fortune so by buying a house in catchment they are doing the very thing they're slagging other parents off for).

Some people have chips on their shoulders and suffer from tall poppy syndrome.

Good on you. You need to advocate for the children you have. Noone else is going to do it on their behalf. It is entirely down to the parents /guardians due to the system we have.

Oh you wag.

Their children also pull their weight around the house, wish my kids would learn that from all their playdates!

This

And how the hell is your normal aspirational parent going to improve the lives of others?!!!! I have aspirations & advocate for my own dc, it's time consuming & takes alot of my resources. I can't do that for any other child. This is why we stopped at 3 children (I would have liked one more!) I carpool for hockey & swimming with other parents, I'm on the PTA but that's all I can commit to!

Basically all parents/guardians should take ownership of their own dc, advocate, push & cherish them they we may have some social mobility.

How am I supposed to change the system? I didn't vote for it? I am a lone parent working with one income in the household to pay for everything. I try to share the knowledge I have, so help my children's friends for free to write personal statements for uni, or encourage them in their choices, send them links about health-care but I can't change very much. That's what's so frustrating. I can't spend my life as a campaigner as I have to work full-time to house and clothe my children!

@Highdaysandholidays1 exactly! The system is in place unfortunately & it's our job to navigate it for our own dc to give them a fighting chance of playing on a level field.
If everyone concentrated on their own dc things would improve for the better. There's too much criticising of others pushing for their kids or blaming the school/teachers etc.. I don't think parents realise what power they actually have!

Why is it the responsibility of aspirational parents to raise standards for ALL children? I certainly have never voted Tory etc so there are limits to what I am able to do. Why is it my responsibility to improve the parenting of other parents?
I would be happy to pay higher taxes etc but outside of that the onus isn't on me.

I’ll say I tried through Parent Council but it was like pushing treacle up a hill. Everything was just in the peripheries no one was willing to deep dive. It was all ‘every child should walk to school or scoot on their very best micro scooter’ rather than trying to utilise parent’s external knowledge/influence/info.

Aren't we all aspirational parents? Surely we all want what's best for our children?

Moonandstarz
You can't change the system, you can just do your bit.

Turn most of the whataboutery and "middle class parents are the problem/middle class parents cause structural inequality" on its head and what people are actually saying is: I think some parents should actively choose to limit their children's opportunities, not allow their children to develop their interests, and should deliberately prevent their children reaching their potential.

Which is frankly a stupid point of view.

Structural inequality is complex, and believe me the people at the very top who run the system are not going to dismantle a system that keeps everyone (including middle class people) in their place because Jane the accountant and David the project manager chose to let Tabitha struggle behind age related expectations in maths instead of helping her, or Amy and Tim thought about letting James do a sports club in the school holidays, but thought better of it in case another child in town didn't do the same.

Exactly my point! And parents who do advocate for their kids & try to push them ahead are vilified. Why should these "champagne socialists" on mumsnet try to make aspirational parents feel guilty. If every parent advocated & took ownership of their own child the education system would be in a much better position.

This!

Education inequality is a real problem. This is not a private school issue. Make all education great and people will not feel a need to go private.

I think more aspirational/pushy parents are often people who have come from WC backgrounds because they don't have generational wealth to fall back on. This is also why immigrants will sacrifice everything they have/work multiple jobs in order to pay for school

Absolutely this.

It isn’t a ‘class’ thing. It is about sacrificing so your children have more than you had.

Weird thread - I think of MN as being a majority middle class parenting app.

I come from a middle class family but wouldn't be described as that myself now- nethuns seems to be majority working class last time I used it

MN is the home of where people request sources to back up statements, gasp in horror at those who go shopping in their Pjs and has people asking for advice on fashion that really only middle class people and beyond could possibly afford in this climate 🤷‍♀️

No the people who are at the top aren't going to change it!!

Rishi's daughters go to Wycombe Abbey, most MPs have kids in private school. The ones on the top are doing what they can to give their children the best they can.. Yet some champagne socialists on mumsnet expect the normal joes hopes to change the status quo?! It's laughable.

There’s a local charity that matches up volunteer (successful) adults with teens so you basically become a supportive middle class parent to a teen from a deprived background whose parents are unable to help them. It’s a very successful program.

@LolaSmiles great response BTW.. But I certainly won't let my dc miss out on enriching activities, experiences or holidays just because other kids can't afford it. Why would I make my dc suffer.. I'm sure Rishi's daughters aren't suffering even though millions of UK kids have less than them!