Middle class, aspirational parenting. Why is it loathed on mumsnet?

[Moonandstarz]

Why is aspirational parenting slagged off on mumsnet so much? Surely every child deserves at least one person who will push & advocate for them? Would the country not be in a much better place if all parents were slightly or a lot pushier for their dc?

That's my point, every child deserves an adult to advocate for them & to be a little bit pushy on their behalf. However parents who are like this get slagged on mumsnet..

Lefties. Want everyone wearing a potato sack eating gruel.

I think more aspirational/pushy parents are often people who have come from WC backgrounds because they don't have generational wealth to fall back on. This is also why immigrants will sacrifice everything they have/work multiple jobs in order to pay for school.

I'm not pushy and don't push other kids down but I am motivated, because I grew up very WC and I know how rubbish it is having no money, so encourage my DC with extra leasons/research the best school for them so they can gain the skills they need to build their future. Also one of my DC has SEN so if I don't stretch him he would get left behind.

Aspirations for their child to achieve highly in school, have great manners & social skills, aspire to go to uni or pursue a trade that will lead to a well paying job. Aspire for them to play sports, learn a language or an instrument.
Just have aspirations & dreams for their dc.
Also to actually do something to make these aspirations happen as in take control & stop blaming the school /teacher other people for a child not achieving.. Too many parents are too quick to point the finger.

I think then that less clued parents need learn their traits so their dc are on more of a level playing field so to speak.. Because the sharp elbowed brigade certainty won't mentor them especially if they view the less clued up parents as a threat!

To suggest that poorer people do not push their children to achieve is utter shite. Your ignorance is blatent.

Is it a good thing to shove your (middle class) children in to doing something they don't want to but feel they have to? The skyrocketing mental health crisis among university students and "middle class professionals" would suggest not.

Middle class isn't actually what the majority of people think it is. People who refer to themselves as "middle class" are usually working class people who think because they have a mortgage and earn over the £50k child benefit threshold they have suddenly achieved "middle classness".

The middle class are (traditionally) academics with more asset wealth. Giles and Mary on Gogglebox for example.

Although I would argue that class has no place in modern society as further education is readily available to everyone and income is relative to expenditure. We see it all the time on MN. People struggling financially despite being on huge salaries.

Jealousy

You are mistaken that only middle class parents want this. You forget- among other things- the large pool of immigrants from very poor working class backgrounds who haul themselves up the ladder of social mobility by sheer hard work.

Hear hear.

And children's mental health would be better too.

You've misunderstood. I was referring solely to the binary distinction between middle class and working class.
Which you've perpetuated as well by referring to ministers Vs deprived postcodes.
A single mum on benefits , a binman and a plumber are both 'working class' although the latter two might be very well off financially. However WC is used as a shorthand for 'poor'.
Why is that?
In truth cultural attitudes and money are very closely intertwined. If you have no money and no transport you won't have the means to take your kids to loads of 'cultural activities'. At the same time things like football tickets are far more expensive than museums or the theatre but somehow only going to the former is seen as deprivation and lower class.

Perhaps it's easier to squash people into two boxes rather than handle nuance

@OfficerPastiche MC have always aspired to be UP. Football was a WC sport, the UC + therefore MC played rugby hence that's why football is probably viewed as more WC (and my extension even professional footballers even if they become richer than 95% of the population). I don't see football as being linked to deprivation though.
I think the fundamental difference is that MC have always aspired to be UC whereas WC traditionally (in centuries gone by) may not have necessarily had those aspirations, probably because when you are fighting for existence there is no headspace for aspirations of pushing forwards and social mobility.
Although society has changed there are still hangovers from the old entrenched class structure.

@OfficerPastiche

I haven't misunderstood anything. You stated that you didn't see class.

Class exists. It is complex and not just about money though that is part of it.

Museums are free. Football season tickets cost a bomb.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. We have Asian, Nigerian & Eastern European neighbours who do everything in their power for their dc. Being average is not an option for them. Lucky children to have parents who put so much energy & belief into what their dc can achieve potentially. My neighbours are also full of advice (unlike the sharp elbowed kind who deny using tutors) & will question anything they need to know.

So what's with the thread title then?

@NewPinkJacket that type of parenting is loathed on mumsnet. Are you implying immigrants can't be middle class or aspirational ?
My post didn't mention their background. My neighbours work extremely hard, have passed that attitude & their aspirantions onto their dc.

The assumption that all immigrants are working class because they are often in working class jobs in this country is patronising, racist and wrong.

That's my point, every child deserves an adult to advocate for them & to be a little bit pushy on their behalf. However parents who are like this get slagged on mumsnet
I think the problem is that there's a certain group of poster who, from behind a keyboard, like to pretend that if they could offer their children opportunities then they wouldn't do it because someone else doesn't have the opportunity.

It's probably nonsense though.

Honestly, what sort of parent would see their child struggling with maths and choose to keep their child struggling when they could do some work at home with their child or have a tutor? What sort of parent would think to themselves "oh actually I'm not going to read with my children because some children don't have literacy rich households" or "we could go to a local farm or an event at a science museum, but we better not because that might give my child some knowledge and experience that other children don't have"?What sort of parent would choose to tell their children they can't do music, sports, drama or another hobby because another child's parent can't? Why would anyone actively seek to hold their child back and limit their opportunities and reduce their child's aspirations?

Many parents want their children to do well, give them the best opportunities they can, do what they can to raise happy, healthy, well-adjusted children, they're engaged in their children's education and will challenge schools and other agencies if required. I don't think it's a middle class thing.

British people LOVE to talk about class and judge things as being a certain ‘class’, and agonise over appearing lower class. It’s a national pastime.
As traditional class markers become less meaningful and class becomes more difficult to define, people feel anxiety about their place in society.

The reason the type of parenting you mentioned is so derided is because people love to have a little dig and an eye-roll.

Yes you have misunderstood. My comment was in the context to a reply of another poster.
Guess you don't want to engage though - just want to be smug about how 'diverse' your life is.

I was born in a house with no running water, am now in a professional job. I count farmers, cleaners, people solely on benefits, foreign dignitaries , startup owners and truly 'upper class' people as friends but go on, carry on making assumptions about me.

Absolutely, as well as my neighbours in my dc's classes the children of immigrants are mostly top set, polite, well mannered kids that are lovely to have around for tea after school. Also their parents don't hide their aspirantions & openly talk about what they do at home.

Because the people on benefits hate that idea that someone strives to own something and climb any ladder at all or put any effort in any achievements and on the other side the rich ones who just pay for all things instead achieving them laugh off the true middle class who tries their best to do it

Well put.

I think you’ll find it’s performance parenting that’s loathed on mumsnet, I don’t think anyone would be against parents wanting the best possible life for their child

@AuntieJune I agree. I don't mind at all being considered a sharp-elbowed pushy parent, I've done it lots of times for my children in the NHS system and also to help their educational difficulties (e.g. profound dyslexia, never tested for, always told just fine, until it wasn't).

Don't feel remotely bad, I work the best I can within the creaking system we have. The gov't have all but abolished testing for dyslexia in schools now, so what's the choice, have a child fail and feel terrible about themselves, or pay £300 for a private test.

Money buys a lot in an unequal system. I've paid to see consultants to get an opinion, I ring up and find out when there's cancellations, read online what the NICE guidelines say, read up on dyslexia. I can't change the system my children are going through, I didn't vote for this government and I actually hate both the education system and the NHS in the country, neither are fit for purpose, but I have to work with what is, not what ideally I'd like to see in 30 years time.

Up to everyone else what they do, but if an appointment is cancelled at the last minute, it just stays empty and unfilled unless pushy old me takes it. I have learned to navigate the systems as they are very poor for UK children often and I want my own children to have at least basic care and basic education.

Classist snobbery