Middle class, aspirational parenting. Why is it loathed on mumsnet?

[Moonandstarz]

Why is aspirational parenting slagged off on mumsnet so much? Surely every child deserves at least one person who will push & advocate for them? Would the country not be in a much better place if all parents were slightly or a lot pushier for their dc?

I do this. I love it.

“Rishi's daughters go to Wycombe Abbey, most MPs have kids in private school. “

Nah it is worse when Tony Blair and Nick Clegg send their sons to the London Oratory and pretend it is a “normal” state school. However, that is the lie that the normal person is sold that private schools are all good and state schools are underfunded/bad etc. It just does not reflect actual reality. It is a diversion. We have had a great experience with state schools, no complaints. But that is because we are privileged in the first place and had access to good state schools.

The people at the top (and that is not just financial, it includes soft powers, thought, cultural etc) across the board are all paying lip service and covering themselves and pretending. Across most human societies.

Education inequality is a real problem.This is not a private school issue. Make all education great and people will not feel a need to go private.
Agree with this and would go further and say let schools focus on education instead of being a one stop shop for everything.If social services, allied services, early intervention etc were properly funded then lots of the issues that play out in schools could be addressed.

Fundamentally it's more than school and enrichment. It's about values and outlook as well. There's many things that offer children opportunities for growth that others don't get. If we take the lowering the bar outlook further:

Should parents not have read to their children and young children because some parents don't read to theirs and it's unfair that some children have engaged parents who read?
Should parents not complete the home activities from nursery/school because some children don't have parents who engage?
Should parents not take their children to interesting places on a weekend that broadens their knowledge and gives them experiences because other children in our town are knocking around the streets unsupervised for 10 hours a day?
Should we not feed our children nutritious food and held the line on age-appropriate bedtimes because other children arrive to school exhausted from being up gaming all night?
Should we stop teaching my DC to value education and respect their teachers because I know from first hand experience there's a lot of parents who are argumentative, don't value education and are quick to defend their child's awful behaviour?
Should we stop teaching our children manners, how to behave in public and how to eat at a table and how to show courtesy to others, after all there are many children whose parents don't teach these things and they don't know how to have polite conversation?
Should we stop teaching them resilience and encouraging them when things are difficult, because some parents fill their children's head with victim mentality and spend half their time arguing that everything is unfair & it's always someone else's fault?

None of the above is a class thing by the way, but they're all things engaged parents do that not all parents do.

@JustanothermagicMonday1 exactly so true! But it's frustrating when there is posters on this thread who shout that normal aspirational parents should be improving the lives of all children! The powers that be who have the power to change the system certainly aren't doing that & are greatly advantaging their own dc's in the process!

I push my child but in a certain way he gives up easily if he finds something difficult so we work through things together and we have deferred him from school (January birthday is fairly typical in Scotland as we don't have reception year).

Dyslexia runs strongly in my family so I have the money set aside for testing at a later point.
I think there is a balance though between a child having a fun childhood and pushing them too much. We do sports and languages though (sign language and bits of french)

I find it quite insulting you think this is solely a MC thing.

I am a single parent on benefits (currently) yet two of my children excel in their chosen sports and the other plays an instrument (through school). All are well mannered, politely spoken and work hard at school.

I do live in a nice area however this hasn't always been the case and my experience has been there is no difference between the parents who lived in a predominantly WC environment and those where I live now in terms of wanting the best for their children.

The only difference is financial ability to give your child all the extras they would like to.

Pushy parents are the worst and do not make happy children. Encouraging them, supporting them and respecting their individual wants/needs are the most important things you can do to help them become happy adults.

It's as if you're saying that if you're pushy enough money will appear in your bank account so they can go to things like forest school (no idea what that is, although we walk in the woods and learn about nature for free) or else your aspirations aren't high enough.

@VasariMichelangelo on mumsnet it is classed as a mc style of parenting. Not in my own personal opinion though. Any & every parent should have the highest aspirations for their child & the ability to advocate for them.

I guess we would count as MC but I come from a very working class town and can see it all ways

I get annoyed on mumsnet at the obsession with 'some' MCs of private schools, particular universities, trivial stuff like not having loo brushes- , But equally I get annoyed at the rise of glorifying untalented total non entities and taking the piss out of those who do aim high for their families or don't think it's ok to play the system and laugh about it - it's like reverse snobbery.

You see these comments particularly on twitter or local newspaper comments too. Make a comment on say M&S and someone will be along with an 'oh it's ok for some' kind of wisecrack- I hardly think my 60p packets of rice etc are last of the big spenders - and some of these idiots spend big money down the pub or betting or whatever.

I see it from all angles and think some people just have a chip on their shoulder and are dissatisfied people and take it out on others doing better (materially) , , but equally I think some MCs are poor at reading the room and being comfortable has sometimes meant reality has been lost for what is necessary against what is desirable/aspirational. You can't for instance simply say LTB when there is no equity or house is rented and they have no job or a bit of a part time job - it's not like being Nigella Lawson and simply renting somewhere else immediately and putting a year down etc

An aside, but this is why I find the conflation between money and class confusing.

You're 'poor' - but does that make you middle class? Especially as you may have been from a privileged background. A lot of 'MC' women have fallen on hard times with illness, divorce and disabled kids.
The middle classes used to be those with independent wealth, the working classes had to 'work for a living'. But these days all the things that are considered 'MC' on here anyway seems to be within the reach of well paid professionals. No mention of massive family wealth.
Meanwhile, plumbers who own their own businesses, those who are quids in having bought their council houses etc are still 'working class' although they have more money than say a master's degree educated social worker.

And much like the 'reading to your kids' these people also pass skills to their kids.

Being in a poor and low aspiration environment isn't the same as WC. Because what even is WC???

Sorry I meant does that make you working class obviously

@VasariMichelangelo forest school is more based on the Scandinavian model of being outside a lot. It's about children making play things rather then a 'typical' nursery and different skills that go along with that.
I don't see forest school as middle class it's definitely not around here just a different type of nursery provision! Different private nurseries follow different educational models.

Private nursery is non optional for many parents myself included, we can't use the school nursery due to the time of sessions they offer and very few childminders available.

Just seen DD off to her Law A-Level paper.
Middle class aspirational parenting seems to have worked for me so far.

No, but you are definitely implying the working classes are not aspirational...

The madness around grammar schools in my area was one of the main reasons I moved back to Ireland. The system means that the pressure on parents and children is, for me anyway, way too much and also not particularly beneficial in the long term.

I think this type of parenting has gone a little out of control in the UK

It's human nature to want the best for your own children above other people's children. To deny that is to deny basic reality. We can want both ideally, but realistically of course parents will push and advocate for their own children, and why shouldn't they? And by the basic laws of nature if some win, others lose, unless of course you're fighting for socialism. Which doesn't work. Because it goes against the fundamental nature of human beings and what drives us...

But according to some posters everything they personally don't do is performance parenting. Explaining things to your children is performance parenting. Playing games with your children in public is performance parenting. Taking your kids to museums or for other cultural experiences is performance parenting. Any kind of engaged parenting is performance parenting. Even telling your children off is performance parenting apparently. Encouraging kids to interact with others is performance parenting. Asking your kids to do something independently is performance parenting. These are the incidents I've read about on MN that were called performance parenting and no, there was no context in those posts that actually would have justified the word.

I absolutely hate the word performance parenting. It's completely non sensical. All it shows is how self absorbed and arrogant the person using that word is that they think other people change their behaviour and how they treat or interact with their children purely to impress them.

@Crybabycries does it exist in Ireland?

@DarkSideOfTheCheese well yes but you do have to take mumsnet with a pinch of salt - answering the door is too much for some of the people on here.

To actually contribute to the thread, I think, most parents are naturally aspirational for their own kids. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. We all want what is best for.our children though how we define best probably differs. And I think most of us would like to see all kids do well or at the very least have at least the basic minimum. A good chance at a good life.

What I don't like is the "pulling the ladder away" from those who come after you.

..or voting for a party that doesn't give a monkeys about the common good...

Sorry, this is the home of the aspirational anybody. Perhaps it's the middle class that might get some pushback so to speak. You would still find support if you found yourself in a puddle.

I know. Outside MN I have never heard the term so my rage is reserved for MN.

I do open the door when the bell rings so I guess that would make me a performance accomodation dweller.

Because people are scared that their children will be left behind. As we become an ever more global society, I suspect the divide will continue to get bigger.

@Srin yes globalisation & Artificial intelligence are real threats. There's another thread on her re A. I & amazing social skills are going to even more important in the future to secure good jobs. As an "aspirational" parents (not remotely wealthy) I'll be putting a greater emphasis on my dc's social skills, the threat from A. I is certainly real.

Weird comment. Working class people do A Levels too, some even go on to be successful lawyers.

I really don't think it is loathed on Mumsnet. You only have to look at the number of threads on secondary education about private schools to see what a privileged aspirational lot most MNers are.