Middle class, aspirational parenting. Why is it loathed on mumsnet?

[Moonandstarz]

Why is aspirational parenting slagged off on mumsnet so much? Surely every child deserves at least one person who will push & advocate for them? Would the country not be in a much better place if all parents were slightly or a lot pushier for their dc?

Why do people think aspirational parenting means undermining others? What does that have to do with the pm choosing private school?

I knew someone who was aspirational in the sense of encouraging his kid to well but was also a good chair of governors in a deprived area. My working class mum taught me to read at 3 and also went into school to read with other kids.

If you assume its always a zero sum game that's to do with upbringing.

TheaBrandt · Today 11:47
There’s a local charity that matches up volunteer (successful) adults with teens so you basically become a supportive middle class parent to a teen from a deprived background….

How does this charity define ‘successful’ adults?

I know a few kids who have been pushed too far though. Pushed through GCSEs and A levels, parent wants them at the best uni with the best course with the best exam results. Total burn out in year one.

@CarnelianArtist "Why do people think aspirational parenting means undermining others?" I don't think that. But very many people on this thread are happy for it to mean that in their case.

We do all want the best, some have more resources - financial, social, intellectual - than others. I’ve had to strongly advocate for my daughter’s needs to be met in school and health services. I know some of the support she gets is purely because I have the knowledge and ability to advocate for her - I’m not prepared to sit back because other parents aren’t able to do the same. I’m happy to help others make their case, but the best for my child means pushing for supports and services to help level the playing field for her, I make no apologies for doing so.

Yeah, because only middle-class parents are like that.

your posts are offensive.

and for what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s those sorts of parents who are given side eye on Here. It’s the type of parents whose little darlings can do no wrong who will go Marching into school rather than face the fact that their kids have turned into spoilt entitled little brats because they’ve never heard the word no who get a hard time. I’m a parent whose working-classness obviously means I have no hopes or aspirations for my kids whatsoever though, so what would I know?

You just have to be middle class and aspirational

Well no. That's why we have a prime minister, a government, mps.. They are paid to work on behalf of the people. We have a department of education, social workers.. All highly trained professionals, this is their job. My job is to parent & champion my own children not yours or anyone elses!

@Jellycatspyjamas good on you this is another example. Your child won't fall through the cracks because you personally advocated for her. You are not blaming the system or pointing fingers. All parents should be doing this.

I wasn't saying it was (performance parenting) - I was referring people to your post on that (which I thoroughly enjoyed), then making a new point.

On excellence vs mediocrity, I was thinking (perhaps you were too) about that thread with the dd who didn't get into choir. I really, really don't think anyone is laying social inequalities at the feet of parents who give their children enriching experiences of whatever kind. The issue on that thread was the opposite - people telling the OP she could 'just sign her up for [private] singing lessons' if she wanted her to get into choir, without knowing whether that was within her means at all. Where there's only an 'elite' and buying one's way in is seen as entirely normal and acceptable. If there's not enough resources for both, I would say (probably) inclusive first.

You are not blaming the system or pointing fingers. All parents should be doing this.

In fairness the system is absolutely shocking, support should be readily available for children who need it and parents of children with additional needs have an uphill struggle to get the minimal for their children. The processes are complex and time consuming with professionals all to often gatekeeping scarce resources rather than empowering parents.

I’m fortunate to have the professional knowledge to argue my child’s case, and to support other parents to do the same. You really shouldn’t need expert knowledge to get the help you need for your child and I do have a thought for children whose parents aren’t able to find their way through the maze or who don’t know how to challenge professional voices around them.

At the same time, there’s nothing to be gained by me not accessing all I can for my child, so that’s what I do.

Absolutely agree, the system is absolutely shocking and fingers should be pointed at Local Authorities who actively seek to deny children with SEN an appropriate education.

The children who the system ultimately does not fail with SEN are the ones whose parents can fight the system either personally or through having the financial ability to do so.

It should not be this way.

Precisely

*The children who the system ultimately does not fail with SEN are the ones whose parents can fight the system either personally or through having the financial ability to do so.

It should not be this way.*

I agree.

Yes agree with everything above & those parents need to fight. I am not a professional in any field that would help those parents & it would necer ever be my business to start advocating for any child other than my own.
I would be absolutely raging if some random busy body started pioneering for my children! Every parent needs to stand up for their own!
That's why we have thousands of people paid by the government to do a job.

I would be absolutely raging if some random busy body started pioneering for my children! Every parent needs to stand up for their own!
That's why we have thousands of people paid by the government to do a job.

You’ve clearly never had to navigate that system. Those thousands of people employed by the government are overloaded with work, and have very, very limited resources meaning that everything is a battle. Parents often don’t have the capacity either because they too have a degree of disability, they’re worn out with the daily demands of parenting children with complex needs, don’t know what to ask for or how to ask. So it’s fine to say parents need to stand up for their own, but where that’s not possible or is very difficult having another parent who has walked that path is so important.

In my case, I have a very specific expertise in my child’s area of need which meant I could defend her rights, I came out of the assessment feeling like had sat a viva voce in my specialist subject - it shouldn’t be like that, but it is. The “every woman for themselves” approach is fine if every woman has access to the same resources but when the playing field is so very skewed in favour of those with privilege, parents supporting parents is no bad thing.

Pampered middle class teenagers are fucking arseholes round here. Their dumb parents won't hear a bad word said about them even if there is video footage of them throwing empty booze bottles at cars. They are untouchable they think because mummy and daddy will remove all obstacles from their precious little lives.

There are many non-middle-class who are polite, cheeky, fun, work hard. They care what others think about them. They care about others. They are the ones with more social and emotional intelligence.

It's nothing to do with class OP.

Aspiration works better if it comes from the child not the parent.

You get those type of kids across all classes. It is due to parenting style rather than class and as I work in FE I can give you 100s examples of entitled kids whose parents are on benefits right up to very wealthy ones. Entitlement doesn't just sit with MC!

@frozendaisy I completely agree with that. The worst behaved kids in my area are the ones who go to the private school. Some of their behaviour outside our local shop is dispicible but nothing is ever done about them & their parents are always bigging them up on social media.

@LolaSmiles indeed.

Race to the bottom.

What should be happening is a tweak in the education system to firstly chuck money at primary schools, more of them, smaller classes, far more speficically trained sen teachers in primary with a range of different techniques to support different styles of learning.

That would plug the gap between the parents that can and can't.
Like fhe old fashioned system of schools putting forth 11 plus candidates and helping in school rather than farming it soley out to parents.

@frozendaisy
. What a load of twaddle.

How on earth can you say all private educated children are awful because of a small handful causing trouble outside one shop. Every other child in that school could be amazingly children.

ShoesoftheWorld
That thread did come to mind, along with general observations that are pro-mediocrity and fairly dismissive about achievement. I find the overall rhetoric that because Person A did ok in Situation A, Person B is unreasonable for wanting better opportunities for their child quite damaging.

Without being a TAAT, I agree that people saying just give her private singing lessons missed the point, but there were lots of useful suggestions on how someone could gain experience, develop their musicality, come back stronger next year Vs complaining that an auditioned choir wasn't open to everyone (especially when the OP openly admitted to the fact that she didn't manage her child's expectations of an audition). Between that thread and many others about enrichment, sports, academia, music etc there's a lot of people who seem to advocate lowering the bar for most children in the name of 'fairness' but they fail to account for the fact that the people at the top are going to remain running the show, and demanding that engaged parents do less for their children is unrealistic.

I think I find in education that there's a lot of parents who want to offer opportunities to their children, who accept that their children will have a range of talents, who'll make the cut for some things and not others, and then there's other parents who seem to go through life complaining that everything is unfair.

LolaSmiles - I suppose I don't see inclusive opportunities as 'lowering the bar'. Again - I think both should be available. (I admit I do get frustrated when I'm in a period where I'm not getting challenging singing for whatever reason - one of my choirs/projects in hiatus or whatever. I still do my parish choirs though). And I suppose aren't many of those parents who go through life complaining things are unfair (who I don't doubt exist, though I've never known any) the very 'pushy MC parents' this thread is about - 'pushing for', and often getting, opportunities even when their kids are mediocre?

Because being aspirational seems closely tied to having money.

I may wish to be aspirational for my dc but I can't afford to live within catchment of the best school, pay for tuition or extra curricular activities.

More generally, aspirational middle class mothers pride themselves on spending an inordinate amount of their lives trying to get their kids into the best local school a need seem to waste huge amounts of school's time appealing decisions.

It is the idea that their child 'deserves' to go to the best school, but my child and his peers can just suck it up because their parents can't afford to be aspirational.

It does irritate me but it has always been the way of things so I try not to dwell.

I think my job as a parent is to use my resources (whatever they are) to help my child become a resilient, decent, self sufficient adult. I don’t feel guilty about that, it’s the job of being a parent surely to want your child to have that. Plus I want her to be happy so I will sign her up to various extracurricular activities to help her find something she enjoys that is not academic or work.

Yes I will have high expectations for her but if she chooses another way, well it’s her life to do with as she wishes but I want her to go into the world with choices. I don’t think she’s any more or less deserving than any other child but she’s MY child, my job is to look after her specifically so I will do my best. I don’t expect anyone else to care about her and her life as much as I do, she’s is my responsibility after all.