Middle class, aspirational parenting. Why is it loathed on mumsnet?

[Moonandstarz]

Why is aspirational parenting slagged off on mumsnet so much? Surely every child deserves at least one person who will push & advocate for them? Would the country not be in a much better place if all parents were slightly or a lot pushier for their dc?

Ahhh this makes so much more sense.
@twistyizzy Your grandparents are what I originally thought the 'working class' was. But staying local/not wanting to be a high flying professional isn't the same as being doomed to a lifetime of poverty which is what people tends to make out.

Anecdotal of course. But Having moved to the North West from London the 'WC' people who stayed home rent free , work locally and moved out when they bought have a much better life than their peers who went to uni, got jobs in London but never managed to achieve the salary heights that would enable them to buy in the capital. A degree isn't the ticket to a good life it once was, and actually even 'gold standard' professions like academia are losing a people in droves.

Also bear in mind that the working class NEEd to work. They are also probably pushy as they cannot afford to give their kids free deposits etc... As @feralunderclass truly middle class parents are more chill as their kids will land on their feet anyway.

ShoesoftheWorld nothing you mentioned is performance parenting though. That's just what lots of us do most of the time: talking to school where we need to about our children, wanting to offer our children the opportunities we can, doing our bit in our community.

I happen to agree with you that there's a place for a range of different groups for a range of talent and experience levels.

I just find the people who moan about nurturing talent seem to push a rush to the bottom (E.g. if an ensemble runs it must be for everyone, regardless of talent or aptitude, but then if parents notice their child has an aptitude and nurtures it then they're accused of being a pushy mode class parent who is the reason other children don't have opportunities). Same on academics (e.g. I did fine at a middle of the road school with no tutoring therefore the people who see their children struggling and get a tutor involved must be pushy helicopter parents Vs parents who want to help their children get better at maths).

What these complainers often fail to see is that by not having easily accessible enrichment for those with talent/aptitude but without the means for parents to fund further enrichment, many children don't ever get a chance to realise their talents or develop their skills.

None of this perspective is about inclusion. It is about a rush to the bottom under a misplaced belief that the people at the top are going to magically fund a range of services better if only a few middle class parents didn't take their children to enrichment/didn't get a tutor/didn't advocate for their children's SEN needs to be met.

So should we just sit back and accept inequality until the government get their act together? I suspect that day will never come....
It isn't always the case that people don't care, many do, but don't know how to go about it,through no fault of their own. My own DPs were hands off supportive, but didn't have inclination or knowledge to know what was going on. My DM was very shocked recently when I told her our local uni was not only not the best in the UK, but the best in the world
I have the Higher Education board on here to be greatful for, I gleamed so much info from on there, particularly regarding medicine applications.

Sorry @twistyizzy what I meant to say is that I thought WC had no accumulated wealth, they needed to work hence the term working class.
A lot of people in supposed middle class professions also need to work, and are pushy with their kids because they are aware of what it takes to be comfortable.
But if they were really independently wealthy they wouldn't need to be.
In the last 5 years the only people I knew who managed to buy in London on an ordinary salary had family help. They had 'competitive' jobs yes but those didn't pay lots.
Those that needed to earn their own deposits had to go for the highly paid jobs.

Other parents & children aren't on my radar or are my concern.

Perhaps not OP but they are your children's peer group and your children will need a vibrant society to shine, unless of course they can live elsewhere.

So should we just sit back and accept inequality until the government get their act together? I suspect that day will never come....
I'll use my vote, I'll make my concerns known, I'll be part of my union ballots, I'll share information with parents so they can also be informed, I'll volunteer in different ways in my community.

What I won't do is deliberately choose to hinder my own children, give them a worse set of experiences, refuse to offer them enrichment opportunities, refuse to tutor them myself/pay for a tutor should they need one etc just because some other children in my town either haven't got the option of that support or their parents have chosen not to support their education.

I won't neglect my own children's potential to play the silly purity spiral game.

You can push a child with aspirations until they break.

The internet is a great leveller with education and resources.

If you can inspire your child to have a determined work ethic, social and emotional intelligence. They should be ok

We told ours, we can provide almost everything you need educationally. If you fail it's not our fault.

I think all their friends & our neighbours would be quite aspirational & their parents are well able to advocate & get what they need for their kids. I wouldn't be concerned about any of them tbh..

Very well put @LolaSmiles, my sentiments exactly.

@frozendaisy social & emotional intelligence is going to be so important in the future with globalisation & artificial intelligence . You're 100% correct in mentioning it.

I think it's promoted rather than loathed on MN.

Apologies for reading you wrong.

Well, those posters are wrong. Most of us do our best for our children but there is definitely a line between forcing your children because you think it looks good and actually having their best interests at heart.

In hindsight I do kind of get your point on MN thinking MC parenting is bad as I remember commenting on a post where quite an aggressive poster accused me of virtue signalling about doing environmentally friendly activities with my children because I was stuck up and didn't live in the 'real world'. As I've said I'm a single Mum on benefits so I'm guessing the response would have been different had they known that.

Jealousy maybe if someone thinks you're more well off and have access to more opportunities. Mine are definitely limited but it doesn't mean they have to miss out on everything. There are lots of free things to do and many schools offer free afterschool activities at certain times during the term. Same for council run summer clubs if you have a low income.

One of my children does quite an expensive sport which they can only do because of their Dad contributing, but even there I've found they are really accommodating if you are struggling and try to help. I've been given discounts and been allowed to pay late because of my circumstances (this is just for anyone worried about paying clubs - speak to them if you're struggling and you might be surprised!).

But why would helping other dc be to the detriment of mine? If I was working FT outside the home I wouldn't have the time to do this for others. I don't have the option of working, so this is beneficial to me and the other students.

We all want the best for our children don’t we ? What has that got to do with class ? What is class, anyway ? My kids all went to different schools because they had different talents and needs. Some private schools, some state. So what ? Nothing to do with anyone else. Maybe it is different in the country I live .

No of course we don't but we need to be more vocal rather than quietly getting on with good works. We should be up in arms and lobbying MPs and governments and local councils. By just getting on with things then we aren't holding our elected officials to account and thereby we are perpetuating the status quo.
We can't let it become a race to the bottom, ALL parents should be demanding educational reform and increased funding. It shouldn't just be up to a specific group of parents to enact change.

@twistyizzy who said I am "quietly getting on with things?". I sign petitions, participate in steering groups, help parents to draft emails to schools (because some are utterly dire and don't care) to name a few things. You make it sound as if those giving a few hours a week are hindering change.

I don't know if it's part of aspirational/pushy parenting, but some of us were talking recently about the various 'go fund me' set up for their children's extra curricular in recent years. It works and the money rolls in. It's a line I couldn't cross, personally, and from a privacy point of view I don't think my DS would allow it.

Clip or photos of the, usually average, child asking strangers to donate. Apparently one woman went to the newspapers when she didn't get funding for boarding school, along with all the other girls and boys at the funding audition then.

@twistyizzy you're right it's up to all parents to advocate for their children & demand a high level of education with plenty of enrichment opportunities. Also people should not begrudge the parents who can educate & stretch their dcs further & provide them with enrichment activities & extracurriculars outside school.

And I will add that those giving a few hours a week can make such a difference to a disadvantaged child. There's a local homework club in a housing estate that some of my tutees attend on a daily basis and it has brought them on in leaps and bounds. I'm so grateful for people like this who are willing to volunteer their time and expertise.

I see this regularly on social media looking for funding for children competing abroad etc..

And mine too

"We all want the best for our children don’t we ?"

The problem is that some of us find it easier to get "the best" than others. Some of us are born with privilege. Some of us buy privilege. And privilege attracts privilege.

@Moonandstarz "you're right it's up to all parents to advocate for their children & demand a high level of education with plenty of enrichment opportunities."

What about the people who can't do the advocating? Do we not have a duty to society in general and our own self interest in particular to include them in our advocacy?

This.

Yes, it's far more common now we were saying, the requests for donations, and using SM. I saw one for a 'talented child, but low income family' just last week. I think those for teams are more common though.

Though I just couldn't do it. The boarding school person apparently got their money, and it must have been considerable, but the other unsuccessful children at the funding audition, whose parents didn't go those lengths, will have missed out.