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Original poster

Upset friend over the use of 'rainbow baby' - was I wrong? *TW* childloss

211 replies

WasIInsensitive · 05/03/2023 19:55

For context - my beautiful daughter died 16 years ago, I got unexpectedly pregnant shortly afterwards and have an amazing 15yo dd too.

Friend had an early miscarriage (not diminishing her experience, I've also miscarried early on and I know its heartbreaking) 20 years ago and has a lovely little 1yo now.

Friend was over earlier and kept on referring to my dd as my 'rainbow baby/child/daughter', she also calls her child this.

I fully understand the term, and know lots of bereaved parents who find comfort in it, however it's not a term I'm comfortable with in relation to my family.

Every time she used this term for my dd I asked her to use dds name, she slipped back into it after one use again.

After, maybe, 5 times telling her she snapped at me, saying she was correct with her use of the word and its natural to use it.

PLEASE DONT READ THIS NEXT PART IF YOU USE THE TERM, AND WOULD BE UPSET BY MY EXPLANATION OF WHY I DISLIKE IT

I explained that I dislike using that term for my dd as I feel it makes her sound as though her importance in my life is based on her sisters place, rather than her being important in her own right.

I don't like thinking of dd as my daughter after my loss, she is simply my daughter. She knows about her sister, and I occasionally use the terms 'little sister' or 'big sister' but never 'rainbow', I actually find it really upsetting to think of her like that, and I find it upsetting to think of my older daughter as 'rain' as well, her life was short, but she was here, she is loved, and she is important in her own right too.

Friend said I was being insensitive to her loss and her use of the term, again I explained that I would never mention/judge/comment or even think anything of someone else using that term about their own situation, however I don't want the term used about my daughter, a couple more words were exchanged and she left, told me to message when I was ready to apologise.

I don't feel like I have anything to apologise for at this moment, but all opinions are welcome. I could have definitely handled it better, but I feel like my point about not feeling comfortable using the term about my family was valid, and I would never have explained my stance had she not pushed it.

(NC just in case friend is on here, I don't think she is but you never know).

OP posts:
ThereIbledit · 05/03/2023 22:09

@MotherOfHouseplants and @Moonicorn no flaming from me. I don't wish to deny the suffering of women who have early pregnancy miscarriages but only the most insensitive of those women would equate their suffering as the same as the loss of a child whom the parents have met, cared for and loved.

The more I think of it the more I'm annoyed with this friend on OP's behalf. OP has give them a LOT of grace, over many years, and they've behaved absolutely appallingly. I think I would cool the friendship.

SausageinaBun · 05/03/2023 22:10

I think it's very telling that it has taken so long for someone to post what @Moonicorn has said, and I completely agree with it.

I wonder if seeing your teen DD makes your friend reflect on her own teen years and her long ago mc.

Original poster
WasIInsensitive · 05/03/2023 22:11

It sounds like she is almost jealous of your loss trumping hers, and is keen to put you down about it? You talk about your child, she finds it too upsetting to talk about and switches the topic back to herself.

Having just had a quick text conversation with mutual friend who is currently having a text conversation with friend, I think this is it.

There have only been a couple of messages from her and I've just said I'll call her tomorrow and talk about it as I don't want a constant drip of information all night, and it's easy to misconstrue messages so I'll know more tomorrow.

All I know so far is that I apparently think my grief is more relevant than hers and I was 'gloating' over visiting the baby garden where my daughters ashes were scattered because her baby isn't anywhere.

I mentioned visiting once, when she asked, my daughters short life and her death are quite upsetting so friend doesn't know most of it, she expressed her discomfort once, after I told her a couple of things, and I've never mentioned anything again unless she has asked.

I think I'm going to cut this friendship off right here, I'm not going to be made to feel guilty about grieving for my daughter, the way I talk about her, or the fact I was lucky enough to meet her.

I don't even know if I want to hear the rest of the conversation, mutual seems to think she's alright, I was slightly worried as this is out of character but it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong apart from some weird sort of one-upmanship thing about the death of my daughter, that I'm not even partaking in.

I'm really shocked, 10 years of friendship and she is, what? Jealous? I don't know. I can't quite believe this.

OP posts:
bridgetreilly · 05/03/2023 22:13

No. She is being unreasonable. You can both choose the term you feel appropriate for your own children. You never, ever get to make that choice for another bereaved mother.

Moonicorn · 05/03/2023 22:15

SausageinaBun · 05/03/2023 22:10

I think it's very telling that it has taken so long for someone to post what @Moonicorn has said, and I completely agree with it.

I wonder if seeing your teen DD makes your friend reflect on her own teen years and her long ago mc.

Because it’s part of this ‘all feelings are valid’ nonsense, where we have to deny there are shades of ‘bad’ and instead pretend that ‘it’s how you react that matters’.

It’s actually incredibly unhealthy, encouraging women to see themselves as effectively ‘bereaved’ by losing a pregnancy they knew about for a couple of weeks.

I won’t tiptoe around such nonsense any more when it’s so insulting to women who have had stillborn babies or lost a child who lived.

saraclara · 05/03/2023 22:15

Wow. Your update is really shocking. That's absolutely monstrous of her. It just boggles the mind that someone who had an early miscarriage 20 years ago, is jealous of someone who lost their living baby.

This friendship is over, frankly. You're right to want to avoid even listening to her, and she's not the person you thought. I'm so sorry.

evemillbank · 05/03/2023 22:17

She was out of order. She should respect your terminology preference. I hate the term rainbow baby too and would never want someone to use it in relation to my family. If they want to use it for theirs of course that's up to them.

Moonicorn · 05/03/2023 22:17

All I know so far is that I apparently think my grief is more relevant than hers and I was 'gloating' over visiting the baby garden where my daughters ashes were scattered because her baby isn't anywhere

Your grief is more relevant OP (even if you’re too gracious to see it that way!). She sounds like a self absorbed nut job who isn’t worthy of your friendship. 💐

MysteryBelle · 05/03/2023 22:18

She said you were being insensitive to her loss, which was 20 yrs ago, and your loss was 16 yrs ago. That makes no sense, she is being obnoxious. It’s fine that she likes the term and it’s fine that you don’t like it, but it’s not ok for her to push it on you. You gently tried to tell her you don’t like the term applied to your dd and she kept on. She owes you the apology. She gave birth a year ago and she should be focused on her healthy child not trying to continually get fresh sympathy from her loss 20 years ago which is what it sounds like she’s doing constantly using the term, and that may be part of why you’re annoyed with her.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/03/2023 22:18

I'm so sorry, OP.

Everyone grieves differently, but getting all competitive over your respective losses is just sick. You're better off without this "friend" who clearly has no idea and no interest in what you have been through.

fajitaaaa · 05/03/2023 22:19

Your latest update is very disturbing. I think she needs to see a counsellor.

MotherOfHouseplants · 05/03/2023 22:20

WasIInsensitive · 05/03/2023 22:11

It sounds like she is almost jealous of your loss trumping hers, and is keen to put you down about it? You talk about your child, she finds it too upsetting to talk about and switches the topic back to herself.

Having just had a quick text conversation with mutual friend who is currently having a text conversation with friend, I think this is it.

There have only been a couple of messages from her and I've just said I'll call her tomorrow and talk about it as I don't want a constant drip of information all night, and it's easy to misconstrue messages so I'll know more tomorrow.

All I know so far is that I apparently think my grief is more relevant than hers and I was 'gloating' over visiting the baby garden where my daughters ashes were scattered because her baby isn't anywhere.

I mentioned visiting once, when she asked, my daughters short life and her death are quite upsetting so friend doesn't know most of it, she expressed her discomfort once, after I told her a couple of things, and I've never mentioned anything again unless she has asked.

I think I'm going to cut this friendship off right here, I'm not going to be made to feel guilty about grieving for my daughter, the way I talk about her, or the fact I was lucky enough to meet her.

I don't even know if I want to hear the rest of the conversation, mutual seems to think she's alright, I was slightly worried as this is out of character but it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong apart from some weird sort of one-upmanship thing about the death of my daughter, that I'm not even partaking in.

I'm really shocked, 10 years of friendship and she is, what? Jealous? I don't know. I can't quite believe this.

This is shocking. You are right to back away. A person who is well does not think like this. She clearly needs help and support but it is not your responsibility to give it.

ThereIbledit · 05/03/2023 22:21

All I know so far is that I apparently think my grief is more relevant than hers and I was 'gloating' over visiting the baby garden where my daughters ashes were scattered because her baby isn't anywhere.

Fucking hell. That's just so twisted and fucked up of her. I'm sorry. You don't deserve this utter shite.

You still sound so very rational and patient and empathetic towards her - I think you deserve a fucking medal my love, because I think I'm quite a patient person but I'd cheerfully go key her car for this comment alone.

You sound like you have your head screwed on. She's trying to play weird one-upmanship, trying to prove that her loss is so much worse than yours (it really isn't, not least because if it was she wouldn't need to play the twatting game) and you're completely right to not join in the "game". I'm honestly so proud of you, stranger on the internet, for being so calm and considered in the face of such utter inflammatory bullshit. Well done my lovely.

JenniferBarkley · 05/03/2023 22:24

All I know so far is that I apparently think my grief is more relevant than hers and I was 'gloating' over visiting the baby garden where my daughters ashes were scattered because her baby isn't anywhere.

Awful. Imagine even thinking that.

It sounds like your friend is in a bad place and I hope she gets some help with that but that is no excuse for this behaviour.

I think it's time to break ties. You are entitled to talk about your daughter as often and in whatever way you would like. Flowers

JenniferBarkley · 05/03/2023 22:24

I meant to say, you sound like a lovely, classy person OP. You've handled this in a much more balanced way than I would have managed.

CornishGem1975 · 05/03/2023 22:26

YANBU. Each to their own but the term "rainbow baby" really irritates me, for reasons similar to what has been described here.

Miscarriage is sad, it's truly shit, but we all know the stats. Early miscarriage happens to a lot of people, most of my friends have experienced at least one, and it's in no way comparable to the loss of a living, breathing baby or child.

Your friend needs help, but that's not your issue and in this situation, I'd be ending the friendship. She's been incredibly disrespectful.

BadNomad · 05/03/2023 22:28

Wow imagine being jealous that someone else's baby died later than yours.

MeinKraft · 05/03/2023 22:28

This is so bizarre OP that I wonder if she's having some kind of breakdown. It's not normal in any way to be dwelling this much on an early miscarriage from 20 years ago. And the death of a child (Flowers) is entirely different from pregnancy loss. They are two different things. I think you're right to step back from this friendship, at least temporarily.

MrsTerryPratchett · 05/03/2023 22:28

I think I'm going to cut this friendship off right here, I'm not going to be made to feel guilty about grieving for my daughter, the way I talk about her, or the fact I was lucky enough to meet her.

I think you are making the right choice. I'm so sorry.

Redebs · 05/03/2023 22:31

I find the term 'rainbow baby' totally inappropriate and can see why you told your friend not to keep saying it. You have nothing to apologise for.

SwordToFlamethrower · 05/03/2023 22:31

She is definitely in the wrong because you've politely asked her NOT to use the term and she won't respect your wishes.

Your reason don't matter, it is up to you.

I have a "rainbow baby". I'm 50/50 on it. I don't mind either way. But if a friend said "hey no disrespect but I don't like to use that term for my kid". That would be it for me. They'd never hear it again.

To keep using it and then get pissy when you say "please don't is a friendship deal breaker for me.

MMMarmite · 05/03/2023 22:34

She's handled it appallingly and I'm sorry for the hurt she's caused you.

I can see how she may have ended up on that place. If she miscarried years ago when quite young she may never have received the support and recognition for her grief. So she may have carried unprocessed trauma all her adult life, which has now been stirred up by her new baby.

I know it seems like a weird jealousy, but to grieve while feeling like your grief is not accepted by others is an horrendous feeling, and perhaps she was desperately, clumsily, trying to push an equivalence between your situations so that she could feel "allowed" to grieve too. So when you , very gently, rejected her way of "shared grieving", she absolutely couldn't cope with that.

Obviously this is not your fault, and it's not your responsibility to fix either. Just wanted to offer another perspective.

Original poster
WasIInsensitive · 05/03/2023 22:36

I'm just so upset at the moment.

DETAILS OF MY BEAUTIFUL DAUGHTERS LIFE AND DEATH, PLEASE DONT READ ON ON IF YOU'LL FIND IT UPSETTING

I was fairly young when I had my little girl, the first in my circle of friends to have a child.

When my beautiful angel was born she was so poorly, she had a condition similar to SMA (they never discovered what it actually was so it's been named SWAN, syndrome without a name).

She was in hospital her short life and never breathed by herself and I had to hold her as she died at a few weeks old. I had to plan her funeral, I had to pick her first and last outfit, the only one she wore, I had to carefully choose the Teddy that would snuggle with her in her Teddy bear coffin, and watch as it was wheeled away, just to scatter her precious ashes in the baby garden a few weeks later and watch as she was finally free instead of being hooked up to all those machines, looking at me with her big, brown eyes to somehow help her.

Then I had to deal with all the vultures who wanted the attention of being bereaved, but not the soul crushing grief that comes alongside it. I cut dozens of people out in those first couple of years because of it.

I never thought, 16 years on, I would have someone I considered considered close friend, be jealous that I'm grieving my daughter. What I would give for one singular day where I don't feel a pang of sadness, or wishing she was here.

Why the fuck do some people wish to feel this way? It's so bloody bizarre to me. I would never choose to feel even a hundredth if this for all the attention in the world.

I've muted all my messages and calls, I can't deal with this, or with her at the moment.

I'm not going to say anything to, or about her, just quietly leave her alone, but clearly there's something going on, but I am definitely not the person to help with it. Mutual friend is in the loop now so can do what she sees fit, at this moment I need to protect myself, and pursuing a friendship with her won't allow me to protect myself. I'll never be apologetic for loving and grieving my daughter.

Thank you all for letting me have a rant, I don't want to do it irl with anyone, she needs help, not her reputation ruined.

OP posts:
Copperoliverbear · 05/03/2023 22:37

I was watching a programme a few weeks ago and everyone was referring to babies that had been born after miscarriages as rainbow babies, even the professionals.
I think the term is for everyone who has lost babies and conceived again no matter the term of the previous children. X

gogohmm · 05/03/2023 22:38

I totally understand your point of view, as a term I've only heard it recently, and it's fine during pregnancy and infancy but once they are a child it simply doesn't make sense anymore, they are not a baby. It's not making your loss any different, it's just treating you very much alive child as important in their own right as opposed to implying they were only born to replace the lost baby