What is going on with MN?

[AdamRyan]

I used to find it a very refreshing and supportive place to discuss the absolute crap that women put up with in all areas of life. It helped me recognise and start questioning abusive behaviours by mu ex. I think its invaluable to women from that perspective.
Over the past few months though, it appears to have changed

• posts about men "needing" sex when their partner isn't up for it and saying women will only have themselves to blame if their partner has an affair because they aren't getting enough sex
• posts suggesting aggression is a reasonable response to not enough sex
• endless endless "women do it too"/"NAMALT"/"not my nigel" on any thread about male violence
• posters calling women stupid/illogical/rude for questioning the above
• and now loads of sponsored threads about sex toys/"reigniting intimacy" when you've just given birth.

I'm starting to feel the whole tone of the site is becoming very patriarchal, which I never felt before. And it's making me sad. I want a space where I don't have to put mens penis wants first. Aaaaargh.

I’ve not experienced the things that you are referring to but I’ve noticed how posters come on here spoiling for a fight.

They don’t care what the thread is about they’ll just agree/disagree because they get their kicks out of anonymously insulting someone because it makes them feel better.

It’s become a feeding ground for internet bullies.

Some posters are unable to have a discussion without insults.

I find it’s a pack mentality.

If the first few posters have agreed with the OP then the majority will also agree and jump on any poster that doesn’t.

If the first few posters have disagreed with the OP then the majority will literally bully the OP until she leaves the thread.

It’s one thing to disagree but the personal insults and bitchyness are completely unnecessary and embarrassing.

I would not come on here for advice anymore.

I haven’t noticed this but one thing I like about FWR is simple straight language so maybe it’s just passed me by

It should now be NAMALT.ENMN (especially not my Nigel) 😂

Men are having a bigger influence its obvious that no woman who has given birth had stitches and trauma would ever reccomend sex within a couple of weeks of a traumatic birth the only ones who do are either a, privileged enough to have a trauma free birth experience or b, a man

Agreed. Also using 'intimacy' and 'sex' interchangeably is classic coercive language. You can have intimacy without sex but whiny men who don't like their partners being unavailable sexually speak as if you can't. Makes me shudder actually. May as well say "how to make yourself able to bear penetrative sex after giving birth so your husband doesn't stray".

I've noticed over the last 12-24 months the tone of posts quite often turn nasty very quickly. It's like people search for something to be personally offended by, not really sure why it's changed 🤷🏻‍♀️

Simple and straight language when it comes to the core debate, yes - everyone is very clear about biology, what a man is, what a woman is, etc.

I'm talking about when the complex aspects of the culture war surrounding gender ideology are debated. It happens time and again that posters who are thought to be trolling (even when they're clearly not TRA trolls) are quietly rounded upon using in-crowd phrases. Some posters on those boards have become suspicious to the point of paranoia, and many of the discussions peter out in the same way as a result. It's understandable, but it's a shame.

Yeah exactly
Assuming women aren't up for sex because they have "lost confidence" and need it reigniting with a vibrator, rather than because they have a newborn, no sleep and more or less damage to their sex organs from giving birth.
I couldn't DTD without pain for 10 months after my first, due to stitches and wound healing. Painful sex isn't fun, no matter how many vibrators you use.

I'd hope MN would be more "take your time, it's not necessarily going to be as fun as before babies" not "here, let me tell you how you are doing it wrong". Bleach.

Also IVF advert is irritating me too but I've never had IVF so maybe IABU. Again though, I think women need support not "education".

It's starting to remind me of that old Bounty pack of advertising guff you used to get under the guise of "being helpful" when you'd just given birth.

Well said

There is definitely coded language on FWR but this has evolved because of the speech police on all social media over the last few years and the heightened awareness of trolls dispatched to disrupt, derail or close down discussion. FWR threads are constantly watched and patrolled by MRAs and well known social media/journo types who are often the ones posting goady comments anyway.

Sometimes FWR posters are over vigilant and get it wrong so I would urge anyone falsely accused of trolling to persevere, try to be patient and articulate your thoughts/questions in a way that can be logically discussed. Typical agitators on FWR will plop and run ie make a deliberately goady statement but fail to back it up. Those are the ones that are often ignored or dismissed because their agenda is so obvious.

Do you think it reflects the general state of society nowadays whereby people seem to have very strong views and opinions and aren’t afraid to express them?

I think I’ve noticed it since brexit, where people can’t seem to agree to disagree any more and can’t seem to want to meet in the middle or try and understand the other person’s view.

I’ve noticed it in politics too, and with lots of current topical issues. If you don’t agree with something you block or cancel the person or make them out to be thick or bigoted. It’s not a very nice way to live.

I also agree I don’t particularly want to see adverts for mn sponsored sex toys and agree there seem to be quite a few more troll posts, possibly from men trying to be goady.

Speaking of feminists ‘being angry’ I would refer to the phrase ‘if you’re not angry, you’re not paying attention’.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4744128-international-women-in-science-day-youve-guessed-it

@Lollipop999 - I definitely agree the world in general is getting more polarised. It seems to happen in cycles. I am hoping that it starts to shift back towards cooperation again.

Conservatives have been dragged so far to the right and Labour for a while went very left as well. Extreme views at the top make it ok for ordinary people to express these too. For example if you have a government that treats immigration the way this one does, people feel emboldened to be racist with impunity.

Starmer is dragging Labour back to middle and I can only hope the Conservatives are forced to do the same.

Agree

There is definitely more snippyness, point-scoring and less humour generally on this site, but I think the more recent increase in misogyny is down to male trolls getting more organised and targeting threads in a more systematic way.

Btw it really is a losing battle with trolls because if you ignore them they get away with it but if you engage you then get involved with an awful tit for tat argument that alienates the ret of the thread. So I think it is probably best if they are ignored.

I think it works sometimes when people use humour and the troll just ends up looks silly. But I agree it’s a difficult thing to get right and the humour approach only really works with the really obvious trolls.

As I said, I understand how and why it's happened, but come on, it's hardly reasonable to expect posters to spend time carefully insinuating their way into the circle of trust. To what end? Especially if they have to start all over again every time they change name. Easier just to read. And I am an avid reader of FWR.

Also, my posts are perfectly logical and articulate. They just don't always toe particular lines. The obvious trolls are obvious, you're right. What I'm talking about is people who are not obviously trolls, but treated like they are anyway.

@TheLeadbetterLife - I agree wholeheartedly. I share a lot of the views on the FWR boards, but I daren’t post. The posters on here who are fine with it have to be part of the inner circle not to see the issues at all.

The feminist boards are the only reason I came to MN and the only reason I stay. I could be extremely rude about the mindless stuff I see posted elsewhere, but the Feminism: Sex and Gender threads have actually helped defend women's rights here in the UK. MN and FWR are the envy of women the world over and Men's Rights Activists, who are behind so much of the push to gender ideology, are thoroughly pissed off that women have been able to communicate and organise here.

Hmmm, that's interesting and would make sense in terms of the subtle shift.

I'm really surprised at the criticism of the FWR board, even if you don't want to take part in the discussion surely you appreciate that there are women out there robustly defending our rights. Or even ignore the topic, but calling feminists 'frothing' and describing the FWR topic as 'unpleasant' in the middle of posts suggesting MTGOW/ MRAs troll the site was unfortunate.

I stay away from the Feminist boards. I'd classify myself as 'soft GC' but can't get on board with all the support that anti-feminist rightwingers get just because they're gender critical. And it's very cliquey.

This having a go at FWR isn’t new so same oId in that respect

Everyone has to pile on - just hide it if it’s not for you. Not difficult

And I’d say it’s had real world impact which isn’t the case for all things that people discuss on here

Women having a voice that counts - I’m all for it

I'm only one outsider but the vibe I get from the FWR boards is one of dangerous, simmering hate.

Of course its not all the posts but that's the feeling I get. The blind willingness to align with anyone showing a GC stance goes hard against my grain.