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Original poster

What is going on with MN?

259 replies

AdamRyan · 17/02/2023 08:29

I used to find it a very refreshing and supportive place to discuss the absolute crap that women put up with in all areas of life. It helped me recognise and start questioning abusive behaviours by mu ex. I think its invaluable to women from that perspective.
Over the past few months though, it appears to have changed

  • posts about men "needing" sex when their partner isn't up for it and saying women will only have themselves to blame if their partner has an affair because they aren't getting enough sex
  • posts suggesting aggression is a reasonable response to not enough sex
  • endless endless "women do it too"/"NAMALT"/"not my nigel" on any thread about male violence
  • posters calling women stupid/illogical/rude for questioning the above
  • and now loads of sponsored threads about sex toys/"reigniting intimacy" when you've just given birth.

I'm starting to feel the whole tone of the site is becoming very patriarchal, which I never felt before. And it's making me sad. I want a space where I don't have to put mens penis wants first. Aaaaargh.

OP posts:
StrychnineInTheSandwiches · 17/02/2023 13:23

'never a "but don't worry dear we all make mistakes, I'm sure you'll be right next time, don't be cross with me for pointing it out and of course you may well be right after all, perhaps I made a mistake, shall we ask a man?!".'

Because that attitude is so prevalent elsewhere on Mumsnet?

Sadlifter · 17/02/2023 13:25

I remember when we could have had a discussion about whether parkrun had a diversity problem without posters absolutely losing their shit.

picklemewalnuts · 17/02/2023 13:26

Absolutely everywhere there's a tendency to defer to men.

Unless you actively push back. All the time.

picklemewalnuts · 17/02/2023 13:27

Sadlifter · 17/02/2023 13:25

I remember when we could have had a discussion about whether parkrun had a diversity problem without posters absolutely losing their shit.

That...

No one can discuss anything without losing their rag. It's snipey.

Polarised bollocks, no conversations just contests in being right. Sad.

Sadlifter · 17/02/2023 13:29

Yes and the weird way posters pick tiny snippets from posts and twist them to suit their own combative agenda. It's bizarre.

Pixiedust1234 · 17/02/2023 13:32

I think its because reporters are lifting threads on a large scale so many different people are being redirected here. Also mumsnet themselves have their own twitter thread advertising whats posted here and we all know what a cesspit twitter is. Then threads that are being talked about head back to reddit...another bastillon of male bile.

All other sm is signposting to trolls everywhere...come here and have fun screwing women up. And so they do

picklemewalnuts · 17/02/2023 13:33

I would love a nuanced conversation about some topics. I don't try though, as it's seen as ignorant and hoary to even ask. Lots of people declaring what's what, rather than interested in how other people see things.

HedwigIsMyDemon · 17/02/2023 13:33

@Babdoc i tried to get involved and discuss my concerns but I was put firmly in my place that unless I agreed with EVERYTHING that was being discussed I clearly should fuck off (it was a discussion about whether GC feminists should ally themselves with misogynistic fundamentalist Christians to campaign for safe spaces - I’m deeply troubled by the idea but what do I know 🤷‍♀️).

camaleon77 · 17/02/2023 13:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Like others... I have tried to engage a few times. It is a horrible section run by the most unfriendly clique of people possible. Like they want to fit some stereotype; otherwise this place has been very useful to me over the past 20 years of being pregnant/childbirths/raising kids in a country different to my own.

I have always found some extremely helfpul advice and tips that have made all the difference to me

WallaceinAnderland · 17/02/2023 13:35

What I (and others) are experiencing happened on this very thread. We state that we find some people on FWR hostile and paranoid, and someone comes along and uses coded language to imply we're TRA sock puppets.

@TheLeadbetterLife can you re-post the specific sentence(s) as I'm not seeing what you're seeing on this thread and it might be helpful to understand what you mean.

Pfeiffle · 17/02/2023 13:35

I think MN is part of the general trend of polarised debates and online aggression. More people are online and are comfortable with voicing their opinions. The global political landscape has been much more right wing over the last 10yrs which gives some people the courage to shout down other opinions.

It would be good to see a major push towards learning critical thinking. So many arguments online come from opinions which have been formed from watching YouTube videos or a mate who’s an expert in reading about virology etc.

2bazookas · 17/02/2023 13:36

AdamRyan · 17/02/2023 08:29

I used to find it a very refreshing and supportive place to discuss the absolute crap that women put up with in all areas of life. It helped me recognise and start questioning abusive behaviours by mu ex. I think its invaluable to women from that perspective.
Over the past few months though, it appears to have changed

  • posts about men "needing" sex when their partner isn't up for it and saying women will only have themselves to blame if their partner has an affair because they aren't getting enough sex
  • posts suggesting aggression is a reasonable response to not enough sex
  • endless endless "women do it too"/"NAMALT"/"not my nigel" on any thread about male violence
  • posters calling women stupid/illogical/rude for questioning the above
  • and now loads of sponsored threads about sex toys/"reigniting intimacy" when you've just given birth.

I'm starting to feel the whole tone of the site is becoming very patriarchal, which I never felt before. And it's making me sad. I want a space where I don't have to put mens penis wants first. Aaaaargh.

I must be reading some parallel version of MN on another planet from you.

TheLeadbetterLife · 17/02/2023 13:39

To be clear, there are many, many amazing women in the FWR boards, who do so much for the GC movement. It is also fantastic that we have this space for discussion, when women's spaces are being threatened or invaded.

I used to post on FWR all the time. My GC views haven't changed one iota. The FWR board has changed though, there is a lot of hostility now. It's especially difficult to engage there if you change name, because some posters assume bad faith. I get why, but denying that it's happening isn't going to draw new people in.

littleburn · 17/02/2023 13:39

Pixiedust1234 · 17/02/2023 13:32

I think its because reporters are lifting threads on a large scale so many different people are being redirected here. Also mumsnet themselves have their own twitter thread advertising whats posted here and we all know what a cesspit twitter is. Then threads that are being talked about head back to reddit...another bastillon of male bile.

All other sm is signposting to trolls everywhere...come here and have fun screwing women up. And so they do

I think those are very good points. The misogynists of the Daily Mail and Twitter are being signposted to this site.

TheLeadbetterLife · 17/02/2023 13:44

WallaceinAnderland · 17/02/2023 13:35

What I (and others) are experiencing happened on this very thread. We state that we find some people on FWR hostile and paranoid, and someone comes along and uses coded language to imply we're TRA sock puppets.

@TheLeadbetterLife can you re-post the specific sentence(s) as I'm not seeing what you're seeing on this thread and it might be helpful to understand what you mean.

pattihews:

Yes, ChilliBandit. And those of us who appreciate and post on FWR will look at some of the posts on this thread accusing feminists of siding with right-wingers, and will know who's posting them.

This is exactly the kind of crap you get on FWR all the time now, especially in the political discussions. We know who you really are.

HedwigIsMyDemon · 17/02/2023 13:45

@Pfeiffle totally agree. Desperate need for critical thinking and acceptance of nuance. Everything is so binary nowadays (word chosen wisely! 😄).

SquirrelSoShiny · 17/02/2023 13:45

Babdoc · 17/02/2023 10:18

The feminist boards are my main reason for using MN. For years they were the only place where women could discuss the threat to our single sex changing rooms, sports, refuges, language and prisons, without being subjected to rape and death threats by trans activists.
The standard of debate there is very high - posters back up their arguments with reputable research, and they deconstruct the logical flaws in misogynist posters’ arguments with surgical precision.
I am surprised that PPs on this thread say they avoid them - it’s a debate that involves ALL women, as our rights are under threat, so you really should be concerned and participating.

This 100%

MartiniFlan · 17/02/2023 13:45

I think part of the thing with FWR is that it's probably the only broadly left-leaning forum (other than certain threads on Tattle and the odd sub on Reddit) where you can have even the most mildly gender critical conversation. Certainly the majority of left-leaning UK forums I'm aware of (e.g. cookdandbomd, drownedinsound) are largely populated by ponderous he/hims gleefully chuckling about how best to murder JK Rowling while applauding themselves for being a wonderful male feminist.

Sadlifter · 17/02/2023 13:46

Yeah I'm GC, but have some sympathy for trans kids so wouldn't go anywhere near the FWR board.

I think the OP might need to hide the Sex topic.

ChilliBandit · 17/02/2023 13:47

@TheLeadbetterLife - yep that’s exactly it. Your posts on this thread have articulated this issue much better than I could have.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/02/2023 13:48

HedwigIsMyDemon · 17/02/2023 13:33

@Babdoc i tried to get involved and discuss my concerns but I was put firmly in my place that unless I agreed with EVERYTHING that was being discussed I clearly should fuck off (it was a discussion about whether GC feminists should ally themselves with misogynistic fundamentalist Christians to campaign for safe spaces - I’m deeply troubled by the idea but what do I know 🤷‍♀️).

FWR has a problem with left wing women. Which is weird.Confused

HedwigIsMyDemon · 17/02/2023 13:52

@TooBigForMyBoots not even sure if it’s that. I just have a real issue with teaming up with people who persecute women in so many ways but we’re supposed to now come together with them because they hate trans people. I find the whole thinking around that deeply disturbing. I was roundly told to fuck off when I raised these concerns though - not a tiny bit of acceptance that anyone could understand my point just constantly tagged and told I was wrong wrong wrong and my enemy’s enemy had to be my friend.

I haven’t been back 😳

MarshaBradyo · 17/02/2023 13:54

TheLeadbetterLife · 17/02/2023 13:39

To be clear, there are many, many amazing women in the FWR boards, who do so much for the GC movement. It is also fantastic that we have this space for discussion, when women's spaces are being threatened or invaded.

I used to post on FWR all the time. My GC views haven't changed one iota. The FWR board has changed though, there is a lot of hostility now. It's especially difficult to engage there if you change name, because some posters assume bad faith. I get why, but denying that it's happening isn't going to draw new people in.

That’s great re positives. For the record I’m not denying it’s your experience.

But as only one poster I thought I’d say you’re welcome on this thread. Hard to say what others do but it can be a great for women if worth giving it another go.

picklemewalnuts · 17/02/2023 13:56

Sadlifter · 17/02/2023 13:46

Yeah I'm GC, but have some sympathy for trans kids so wouldn't go anywhere near the FWR board.

I think the OP might need to hide the Sex topic.

FWR is full of women whose hearts break for children wrestling with their identity.

And yes, it's very defensive these days.

I think there's also an element of 'fuck's sake, we've done this one already!', which is completely unhelpful for the masses of people who haven't 'don't it already'.

And there are accusations about allying with the Christian far right made by bad faith actors on a regular basis. It's an effective strategy for preventing real conversation. It shuts down the more nuanced discussion that's needed.

It's a bit 'reds under the bed', effectively diverts energy from work that needs doing.

WallaceinAnderland · 17/02/2023 13:58

And those of us who appreciate and post on FWR will look at some of the posts on this thread accusing feminists of siding with right-wingers, and will know who's posting them.

Thanks for that example. I see what you mean and I also see what the other posters means. One of the TRA tactics is to claim that all GC women are far right, facist, Nazi, etc. when in actual fact, most are liberal left, if you read their posts.

It just so happens that people like Trump and, yes, far right and Christian groups think the same as GC women. It doesn't mean that we align with them. Patience does sometimes wear thin when posters keep using this as a stick to beat GC women with.