We want our evenings back

[IvanaB]

Does anyone have any tips on how to get a toddler to go to sleep alone?

My DS is 31 months. Since birth he was rocked to sleep. When he became too big to be rocked he had to be bounced (we had to be standing, not sitting). Our backs were breaking as he's a big boy.

He's now 31 months and moved from his cot to a single bed a couple of months ago. Since then, he can fall asleep in his bed but either DH or I have to be sitting beside his bed singing to him. We wouldn't have an issue with this if it didn't take, on average, 1.5 - 2hrs for him to fall asleep. Some nights it can take longer. He's in bed for 7.30/8 but often doesn't go to sleep until 9/9.30pm by which time, we are shattered and good for nothing.

He still gets up during the night too and needs us to repeat the process (thankfully it usually doesn't take anywhere near as long). We're just lucky that our 10 month old sleeps fairly well.

I'd love to be able to tuck him into bed, read him a story, sing him a lullaby and then leave him to drift off.

My son is the same age. He’s also always been an awful sleeper. Never slept easily.

The ‘advice’ just doesn’t work. Ie 15 mins before they seem tired, start bed, we’ll that would be about 2am. He never seems tired. We have tried early bed, late bed, leaving, not leaving him

A 2.5 year old on playpen? Unless that’s made 6ft high, Ds would be out of that in 2 seconds flat. He’s been climbing out of a cot or over stair gate since at least 15 months. Hence in bed by 18 months.

We do they whole bath, story, into bed. But he still takes 1-2 hours to fall asleep. Even if we don’t start bed until 8.30pm. He has no nap now 99% of the time ( only if he falls asleep in car). And awake by 6am. Yes he must be chronically overtired, but how do you force a child to sleep? If I leave room he will spend the next 2 hours running in and out, crying, passing out from holding breathe, panic attack. If I sit with him he doesn’t sleep either.

He now goes to forest school nursery 8.30-11.30am and spends most the time outside running around, then we go out again most afternoons. Doesn’t make him tired.

I even took ds recently to the paediatrician here, with sleep diary as he is only getting on average 6-8hrs of broken sleep in 24hrs ( he still wakes several times also). I was just told, some children need very few hours sleep, and nothing to do.
His record was 4-8months old when he managed to only sleep in 30 mins slots, 4/5 times a day ie 2-3hrs max sleep in 24hr, for 4 months in a row. Doctor again then just said ‘ he’s seems healthy so no problem’. Dh and I were getting even less sleep obviously.

People who just say ‘ you need a routine’ really don’t get it at all if you have a super non sleeper. Do they really thing you haven’t tried that already?

I can see the rationale others have behind saying you need to leave the room for a few minutes but it wouldn't have worked for DS. He would have been sitting there awake and waiting. And then become really upset when I did not return. In his case, it was really important I did not break that trust by not coming back as he then would not have trusted me for other things. So I guess depends on your child and their personality

Drop the nap. Earlier bed time. Don't get into this trap with your youngest either.

my 2.5 .. also 31months 🤣.
we have only just cracked the night door closed. it was gradual I’d sit and then crawl out when asleep. Then outside then just telling him through the door night night etc. it was nothing I did il be honest but dd6 sang to him and talked to him in the end. Now his routine is to go to bed with his milk and everyone gets a stroke on the cheek with his snuggly ,must not forget the snuggly. He still wakes plenty of times in the night and needs touch to go back to sleep . Id like to say I spend my nights sat on his floor but really he just spends his nights in bed with me . I have made a rod for my own back but in lockdown breastfeeding co sleeping was just the answer to survival so don’t feel bad . I get till 10/12 pm most nights so I don’t complain, Contemplating a single bed for him at a last ditch attempt.

Fair enough OP.
I Just remembered my brother was one of those children who would also go to sleep really late, but literally wake everyone up at 5am 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫
so I know exactly how that feels!

I think you’ve got very good advice upthread, hope some of the suggestions work out xx

OP you need to create a new habit for bedtime to break the old one.
Expect it to be uncomfortable for both you and him to start with. You will have tears (from both of you) but the singing for 2 hours needs to stop as it sounds like you have reached your limit with it, quite understandably.
He is old enough to reason to a degree. Create a new big boy routine- explain its Bath, story and bed. You will read to him - a few stories if he wants. Then it’s lights out, tuck in and kids and you leave the room. He needs to not be able to get out of the room so you need a stair gate if the door is left open.
He will wail and cry out those first nights. Go back in every 5-10 mins and reassure him that he can go to sleep on his own now. Smooth him and then leave. You will have to repeat this and it will be heartbreaking if he is really clinging but trust me. It won’t take long. 3 nights usually. Then he should be able to smooth himself to sleep quicker and quicker.
Its going to be harsh, sleep habits are hard to break but so worth it in the end.
goodluck!

I also have a 2.5 year old son who has never been a good sleeper. We got him into a bad habit from the start by rocking him and bouncing on a yoga ball to put him to sleep. Now he's in his own room in his toddler bed. We still have to pat him to sleep for about 5 minutes, or if he's really tired then we just sit with him for a few minutes until he drifts off. It's still not an ideal situation as we'd like to leave him to fall asleep on his own without him getting out of bed and running after us but it's still a HUGE improvement. It used to take us about 2 hours a night to put him to sleep.

What helped is dropping his day time nap. He used to nap for 1.5 - 2 hours. Now he hardly naps and we don't force him either because it means he can sleep between 7 - 7.30pm and wake up 7.30am. He also started nursery recently which tires him out. On weekends we take him to the park and let him run around (I agree with PP that toddlers are like dogs - they need exercise!) It makes a world of a difference having our evenings back. I hope things improve for you soon!

Because that's how old he is. Children develop rapidly between the ages of 0-5 but most significantly between 0-3. The months really do make a difference.

This! This is exactly why we sleep trained at 18 months. Don't regret it, and we have a very well slept, happy boy who loves his bed time routine and often takes the lead after dinner. Sings to his toys and plays for a while before putting himself to sleep.

Poor kid sounds traumatised doesn't he? Someone call the police.

OP, another key thing is be boring. Used hushed voices, say the same thing every time you are in his room, I.e. it's bedtime, mummy's just outside the door, night night, love you. Don't mix it up, become predictable, become so boring he would rather go to sleep than have you come back in.

Don't worry, I understood this and lots of others did too. (Though I'd have found 2 years 7 months easier to understand without doing maths lol)

I do reckon the nap length is the issue given he's staying awake for over an hour with you. That's separate from wanting him to fall asleep with less input from you. He's still getting that input but suddenly it's not working for ages, because he's not tired enough.

Fwiw I was a rocking, cosleeping, no sleep-training sort of mum and my 3.5 year old now goes down easily after a story and a cuddle. My 13 month old has always been a bit of a better sleeper, she co-slept until a month or two ago but now goes in the cot. They're all different, but it's possible to make progress regardless.

Sorry people are being nasty on here.

OP, do you have a baby monitor in his room? We used this when getting our youngest DD to transition to putting herself to sleep, as she also really didn't want to be left.

Our routine was:

Stories before bed
Tuck in and say goodnight

Then say something like 'I'm going downstairs now but remember, if you need me you can speak to me on the monitor.'

Usually she'd ask a few questions or chatter to me on the monitor for 5 minutes or so when I got downstairs, but at least I could get on with other things like tidying up while I listened and gave her some reassurance. Keep saying, 'Right, that's enough chatting, let's have some quiet time', and pretty soon she'd stop talking and go to sleep. It took a while for the chatting on the monitor to reduce, but having that reassurance that we were 'there' even if not in the room enabled her to transition to independent sleep. Maybe something to try?

Thank you. We have a Ring Spycam in his room which has 2 way audio so we could definitely try this.

Mine does this! If I get a bit wrong she sits up and corrects me!

Oh I also bought her a weighted blanket to sit on top of her duvet to keep her cosy and comfy and put one of my T-shirts in bed with her so it smells of me and might comfort her.

Just a couple more ideas!

How did it go tonight OP?

Is a weighted blanket safe for a 2 year old? I probably wouldn't give one so young as they can restrict mobility.

A lot of the advice including bedtime 15 mins before actual sleep time comes from the book Still Awake by Lyndsey Hookway. I find it really different to other sleep guides for this age, most of them seem to suggest the Supernanny type approach which wasn't for me. She has some other advice if bedtime still takes however long whenever you do it and some general info around sleep and alternatives e.g. bed on parent's floor.

BTW I don't see why you couldn't do it at 2am if you wanted to try it - the point is that you're building an association between the steps of the bedtime routine and the child actually falling asleep, in the hope that the association becomes strong enough that it works regardless of the time (though you still have to shift the time slowly). But if you have a child with low sleep needs, then a 7pm bedtime is probably unrealistic anyway, it might make more sense to aim for something like 11pm, in which case starting at 2 with an aim of getting to 11 isn't that different from starting at 9 with an aim of 7. If your child is already staying awake until 2am, does it matter if it's in the bedroom or the living room? It's a bit like the insomnia advice not to do anything in your bedroom except sleep and to leave the bedroom if falling asleep is taking longer than 20 minutes, to avoid making a bedroom = lie awake anxiously association.

DS1 wouldn't go to sleep until 2am either - I remember asking my HV for advice (reluctantly because I assumed she would suggest CC) and she exploded at me telling me it was not appropriate Thank you lady, yes, I keep him up to take him around the clubs. Obviously.

Also with the leaving for 30 seconds, it's normal that the child will sit up anxiously waiting for you to return at first, or even cry for the entire time you are gone. That's why you start with literally just opening the door to the hallway, going out and coming straight in again (or going for a real/pretend wee if you want to but coming straight back). Start with short small absences so that they become secure in the knowledge that you will always come back. Don't increase it straight away (I never understand why sleep training always seems to involve this, surely you want to get a child comfortable with one stage before you increase it?) When you have worked up to longer absences, and notice that when you come back they are very sleepy/actually asleep, then you can say you'll be back soon but actually not. For DS1 he didn't know time, so I could say 5 minutes and actually be longer, but for a child who does know time that probably wouldn't be a helpful strategy. What happened for us is that I actually discovered this by mistake - I offered to go down and get him a drink and by the (very short) time I returned with the drink he had fallen asleep.

Hi @naturenamespourhomme we had a bit of success last night! DS didn't nap during the day (his choice, I took him through to bed as usual as he was clearly tired but after 45 mins he declared that he didn't want to sleep so I didn't force the issue). I was worried he'd fall asleep in the car on the way home but he managed to stay awake.

I brought his teatime forward to 5pm (usually 5.30/6), gave him a bath and he was in bed for 6.45pm, sleeping for 7.40pm 👍 we didn't attempt to leave him, one step at a time. As long as he's going down at a reasonable time then that's the most important thing for now.

He hasn't napped again today, although he looks wiped out now and is on the verge of conking out. Hoping to follow the same routine tonight and see how it goes 🤞

That’s such a good start, well done

Thank you 😊 second day of no nap and he's sound asleep again, has been since 7.20pm 👍 he is shattered during the day though and I feel he really needs a nap still but he fights it. I usually persevere until he drops off but sometimes that's not until after 2pm and he doesn't wake any better for it. Think I'll continue to take his lead on naps and stick with the earlier dinner and bedtime routine as (early days, I know) it seems to be working x

A 10 min Power Nap can help when they're really exhausted but don't need a proper nap.

Maybe my child and I are total weirdos, but from about that age we told him 'you don't have to go to sleep, but you do have to stay in your room" and left him to it, after reading 3 stories and holding hands for a few minutes. We also got him a TonieBox and told him he could listen to as many Tonies as he liked.

DS is 3.5 now, and sometimes we can hear him faffing about/playing in his room for ages, but since it's babyproofed and we have a babymonitor, we just leave him to it and he eventually puts himself to sleep.

Sounds really positive! Well done!!

Sounds great progress but you are really missing a trick not trying to leave him yet. IMO when they first drop the nap is the easiest opportunity to start building new sleep associations because they’re so knackered from not napping that they can’t fight it for too long and fall asleep regardless. There’s no need to keep the singing up now, you still need to break that sleep association. If you keep doing it then gradually as he gets used to not napping then it will go back to hours of singing again because he is still reliant on that to settle to sleep. Just go for it!

If he is still napping I would cut it out altogether or just cut it shorter from 1hr 39 to 45 mins. My eldest can be loud so we got a plug in white noise machine for both boys and it drowns out any noise from siblings so they don't wake when the other is kicking off/going to the loo etc.

@BertieBotts yes they are safe, you get children specific ones, usually recommended for 3+ but my DD is almost 3 anyway and we had it with her on the couch for a few days to try it and check she was comfortable with it and could move before moving it onto the bed :)