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Original poster

Butch women and public loos-not sure if correct place to post..

262 replies

Lesbianactually · 09/10/2022 18:57

My partner is very masculine in appearance and is mistaken for a man all the time. This isn't usually a problem to her as she's aware of (and happy with) what she looks like.

However public loos (including in bars/restaurants etc) are a different story. It limits where we can go out, always has to be somewhere she feels comfortable, and these are few. Where she lives it isn't a very nice area and if I visit her she refuses to go out unless we're not drinking alcohol and/or will be very quick. First world problem I know, but I'd love for her to be able to leave the house for longer on occasion or for us to be able to share a few drinks and have some quality time. She lives with others so we don't get it at home.

She's better than she used to be. A few years ago she made herself quite poorly by holding the urge for up to 6 or 7 hours, & nowadays she won't do this, but largely through avoidance rather than management. She still panics if we go out, quite often. We live near a 'gay village' and she's fine there but last time we went with some friends, they wanted to go to a bar outside of it and she became visibly distressed as we were drinking alcohol and this means she needs the loo more often.

I've tried to help. The crux of the issue is she hates being confronted, told she's in the wrong loo. She's noticed if we're in a not so nice area, people are less tolerant/open minded and when they have confronted her they're quite nasty about it. In nicer areas she's less uncomfortable. In my local pub (we live quite far from one another) she's fine, and she has been confronted in there but she just responded that she was a woman and was there with her girlfriend and she'd show her ID if she wasn't believed. She wasn't upset by this at all but she has also in other places, had some people grab her and try to drag her out, get quite aggressive with her etc.

I know this is an anxiety-induced situation and perhaps does not need specific advice other than for her to get help for anxiety but just wondered if anyone else has experienced anything like this, anything that's good to say to people if she finds herself in this situation, any ways I can help?

She has a disabled key, from the time she made herself ill with this, but it isn't always practical to use that and it would be better for her to be happier to use the female loos generally. It's causing her unhappiness in life and limiting what she does/where she goes.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:10

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Jibo · 09/10/2022 22:10

If your partner is such a believer in shared/gender-neutral spaces, has she considered just using the men's loos? They do have cubicles.

Disydoll12 · 09/10/2022 22:11

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Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:12

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:10

I would have done the same if they were being Pervy

So if I see a male in the womens I am not allowed to challenge him until he commits a perverted act in front of me, my daughters, my mum?
Is that what you are saying?

Yes because of the umpteen cases on this thread of butch women being stopped from using the loos this is your sorts fault

MintyGreenDreams · 09/10/2022 22:13

@Circumferences I was so proud of her and ive only met her twice!

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:13

free you have used the slur terf a few times now and I ask you not to.
It is synonymous with threats of violence and rape towards women and while I am happy to engage with you I will stop if you continue to use that word to describe women.

MintyGreenDreams · 09/10/2022 22:14

@Disydoll12 totally believable and my post is 100% true.

Soontobe60 · 09/10/2022 22:15

FreezingThyme · 09/10/2022 21:28

Name change fail? I've not name changed? Do you mean the woman I'm talking about? We are an women only group ( WI. )Trans women are allowed but she isn't trans.

So a mixed sex group then.

Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:15

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:13

free you have used the slur terf a few times now and I ask you not to.
It is synonymous with threats of violence and rape towards women and while I am happy to engage with you I will stop if you continue to use that word to describe women.

Sorry I call bull shit on that it’s like when racists don’t wanna be called racist it’s exactly what it says on the tin radical feminists I am a woman ain’t gonna rape you you might not like it but it’s what it is

evilharpy · 09/10/2022 22:15

A woman I know has had very similar issues. She's not at all what I'd call butch but is very muscular, has short hair and wears quite androgynous clothes - but has very feminine facial features and I struggle to see how anyone could mistake her for a man. She gets challenged quite frequently in ladies toilets, has been physically attacked, and once got dragged out of a service station loo.

Sorry your partner is experiencing similar, OP. I don't know what the answer is.

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:15

Yes because of the umpteen cases on this thread of butch women being stopped from using the loos this is your sorts fault

So all women must now remove their boundaries and personal safeguarding and accept any male in female spaces including those where they will be naked? Even spaces where are children will be naked males cannot be challenged Really?

Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:17

evilharpy · 09/10/2022 22:15

A woman I know has had very similar issues. She's not at all what I'd call butch but is very muscular, has short hair and wears quite androgynous clothes - but has very feminine facial features and I struggle to see how anyone could mistake her for a man. She gets challenged quite frequently in ladies toilets, has been physically attacked, and once got dragged out of a service station loo.

Sorry your partner is experiencing similar, OP. I don't know what the answer is.

The answer is stop cowtowing to gender criticals they are causing this they are harming cis women but hey they won’t understand that or they don’t care

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:17

Sorry I call bull shit on that it’s like when racists don’t wanna be called racist it’s exactly what it says on the tin radical feminists I am a woman ain’t gonna rape you you might not like it but it’s what it is

Ok. I will continue to report your posts for hate speech and will no longer engage. Have a pleasant evening.

Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:18

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:15

Yes because of the umpteen cases on this thread of butch women being stopped from using the loos this is your sorts fault

So all women must now remove their boundaries and personal safeguarding and accept any male in female spaces including those where they will be naked? Even spaces where are children will be naked males cannot be challenged Really?

I have been in unisex changing rooms there are locks on cubicles what’s the issue here? How many people are naked in womens loos fgs

Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:19

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:17

Sorry I call bull shit on that it’s like when racists don’t wanna be called racist it’s exactly what it says on the tin radical feminists I am a woman ain’t gonna rape you you might not like it but it’s what it is

Ok. I will continue to report your posts for hate speech and will no longer engage. Have a pleasant evening.

My posts are not hate speech and that word that you don’t like isn’t a hate word as I swy I will use gender criticals but hey

PeloFondo · 09/10/2022 22:21

I can see it would happen
Went to school with a girl who wore the male uniform, always in trousers and usually holding a football. Short hair and presented as male
None of us cared, it was just who she was and we all called her by her nickname

My mum picked us up one day when we were coming out of GCSEs, we chatted on the way home, probably a 20 min drive. Mum let her out and said "see you later" then turned to me and said "isn't he a nice lad"
She wouldn't believe me that she was female (and no, mum wasn't old, she would have been late 40s at that point)

Hugocat1 · 09/10/2022 22:25

It’s odd she gets mistaken for a male. As instinctively women recognise other women.

But surely the moment she spoke about they would be able to tell she is female ..

SeenYourArse · 09/10/2022 22:28

It seems super ironic to me that she visibly strongly resembles a man, is happy with this yet is very unhappy when other people also think she looks like a man?! Is she happy to look like a man (therefore being mistaken for one) or not really? If being mistaken for one makes her so anxious and upset maybe she isn’t so keen on her look after all?

JohnsShirt · 09/10/2022 22:30

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:15

Yes because of the umpteen cases on this thread of butch women being stopped from using the loos this is your sorts fault

So all women must now remove their boundaries and personal safeguarding and accept any male in female spaces including those where they will be naked? Even spaces where are children will be naked males cannot be challenged Really?

Also remember the poster you are replying to considers transwomen to be women, so you can't really challenge anyone, can you?
That naked person with a penis in the female changing room may well be a woman, you won't know without their frilly dress on.
<boggle>

thatisnotyours · 09/10/2022 22:31

This thread really does confirm the ugly side of MN.

Posters refusing to believe it happened because it shakes up their world view or they've never seen it in real life.

Worth thinking about.

Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:32

JohnsShirt · 09/10/2022 22:30

Also remember the poster you are replying to considers transwomen to be women, so you can't really challenge anyone, can you?
That naked person with a penis in the female changing room may well be a woman, you won't know without their frilly dress on.
<boggle>

Show quote history

I find it funny how many gender criticals are literally obsessed with what’s in folks pants ffs it’s disgusting seriously let folks be let them do what they want as long as they ain’t breaking the law ffs

Hugocat1 · 09/10/2022 22:33

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MrsNobodyMM · 09/10/2022 22:34

I'm sorry this has happened to her it seems like she has been through a few traumatic events end is now scarred by that.

Because of the climate in which we now find ourselves women are especially sensitive to men entering female only spaces, end I don't find it too hard to believe that some women could assume your GF is a trans woman or a man "identifying as a woman" in order to access a female only space.

My advice would be for your GF to have a well rehearsed script: "I'm female, I've always been female, I'm a butch looking lesbian not that it's any of your business, now please fuck off." She sounds as though she can stand up for herself in all other situations and she needs to face this head on and learn to do it over this too.

LastcallingforMimi · 09/10/2022 22:38

Freespirit42 · 09/10/2022 22:32

I find it funny how many gender criticals are literally obsessed with what’s in folks pants ffs it’s disgusting seriously let folks be let them do what they want as long as they ain’t breaking the law ffs

Show quote history

I’ll tell you why us women are obsessed with what’s in peoples pants …

I’ll give you a couple of clues

  1. men rape women with it.

  2. It’s a physical representation of the difference between male and female.

can you guess what it is yet?

CrossStichQueen · 09/10/2022 22:40

Johnshirt it appears the umpteen cases of men convicted of voyeurism in female toilets and changingrooms not to mention actual assaults...the 10 year old girl sexually assaulted in a Morrisons toilet by a male springs to mind mean nothing and women are called names and told to remove their boundaries and safeguards and never challenge a male in a female space....unless he has his cock out but like you say if he is trans it's a girl cock so should I challenge them or not??????

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