Butch women and public loos-not sure if correct place to post..

[Lesbianactually]

My partner is very masculine in appearance and is mistaken for a man all the time. This isn't usually a problem to her as she's aware of (and happy with) what she looks like.

However public loos (including in bars/restaurants etc) are a different story. It limits where we can go out, always has to be somewhere she feels comfortable, and these are few. Where she lives it isn't a very nice area and if I visit her she refuses to go out unless we're not drinking alcohol and/or will be very quick. First world problem I know, but I'd love for her to be able to leave the house for longer on occasion or for us to be able to share a few drinks and have some quality time. She lives with others so we don't get it at home.

She's better than she used to be. A few years ago she made herself quite poorly by holding the urge for up to 6 or 7 hours, & nowadays she won't do this, but largely through avoidance rather than management. She still panics if we go out, quite often. We live near a 'gay village' and she's fine there but last time we went with some friends, they wanted to go to a bar outside of it and she became visibly distressed as we were drinking alcohol and this means she needs the loo more often.

I've tried to help. The crux of the issue is she hates being confronted, told she's in the wrong loo. She's noticed if we're in a not so nice area, people are less tolerant/open minded and when they have confronted her they're quite nasty about it. In nicer areas she's less uncomfortable. In my local pub (we live quite far from one another) she's fine, and she has been confronted in there but she just responded that she was a woman and was there with her girlfriend and she'd show her ID if she wasn't believed. She wasn't upset by this at all but she has also in other places, had some people grab her and try to drag her out, get quite aggressive with her etc.

I know this is an anxiety-induced situation and perhaps does not need specific advice other than for her to get help for anxiety but just wondered if anyone else has experienced anything like this, anything that's good to say to people if she finds herself in this situation, any ways I can help?

She has a disabled key, from the time she made herself ill with this, but it isn't always practical to use that and it would be better for her to be happier to use the female loos generally. It's causing her unhappiness in life and limiting what she does/where she goes.

Thank you.

Since Nicola sturgeon is a woman who has stood up recently for trans women do you call her trans you argue in very bad faith

Women here always accuse anyone who disagrees of being a man, Trans or TRA. Every single time.

Again because you keep saying it don’t make it so trans women are not men you can say that about me saying it but I don’t care I don’t see them as men that’s the difference here

Well they have met the wrong woman here as I am as gobby in person as I am online so they can meet me in person and argue with me if they want fed up of men and women saying I am a handmaiden etc I speak for me they may have issues but they shouldn’t assume all women think like them

But why does a thought in a man's head mean that you now no longer see him as a man? I just don't get it.

I don't believe Rachel Dolezal is black even though she says she is.
I don't believe Oli London is a Korean woman (or is he a Korean man, I can't keep up).
I don't believe that Ezra Miller is non-binary.

Why do you place so much stock into a thought that someone else has?
Do you believe all those people in prison that say they're innocent? That anorexics are really fat? That schizophrenics are really hearing those voices?

All of those people say things earnestly, but it doesn't mean any of it is true.

I am mistaken for male several times a week. I just correct them, saying "female with short hair" or similar.

People do this. The OP's partner and anyone else upset by it, it really is up to you to toughen up about it. It's hardly the end of the world.

Do you know any trans people? I do I have a good best friend who is taking hormones and in many ways is more womanly then me because what is a woman? I know that she isn’t an aggressor she should have been born a woman that is very clear to me . I can’t put my finger on it but she’s not manly in any way . So she doesn’t scare me at all her going into loos and no one says anything about her at all

How exactly are they more womanly than you? I suspect it's hair and makeup, again... The woman costume.

@Freespirit42

I have a good best friend who is taking hormones and in many ways is more womanly then me because what is a woman?

woman
/ˈwʊmən/
noun
an adult female human being

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/woman

HTH

I do I have a good best friend who is taking hormones and in many ways is more womanly then me because what is a woman?

How is your friend more womanly than you exactly?

Women come in all shapes, sizes, skin colour, they have different interests & religions, some are mothers some not but the 1 thing women have in common is that we are all female. Thats what a woman is. An adult human female. How they dress, act, where they live or their interests make no difference.
So please do explain how your male friend who is a transwoman is more womanly than you?

Oh, and if your very good friend has a penis, @Freespirit42 , that kind of gives the lie to "they're not manly in any way", don't you think?
It's the very essence of manhood.

Firstly, what is womanly? If your friend looked less feminine, do you think you'd see them as a woman?
I'm sure your friend, as well as most TW aren't the aggressor, they are still male though. You know that and they know that. So, do you actually see them as a woman, exactly the same as you, or do you see them as a vulnerable person and want to make their life easier by going along with it?
Because every time you argue that TWAW and they should be allowed in women's spaces so that they feel more comfortable, you are opening up those spaces to ANY man.

Have you ever known a really dodgy bloke? That person can now access any spaces that are reserved for women and girls.

It's a shame that your friend gets caught in the crossfire, but here we are.

No it’s not in the way she dresses at all it’s in mannerisms I can not do two things at once as many women supposedly can she can. She is much more like a house wife type I am defo not. She’s into more feminine stuff I am not the point is I don’t care what anyone looks like or behaves like I treat them how they are now you might not agree that’s fine. I am not gonna change your mind but don’t try to change mine. It’s not in clothes as she don’t wear dresses really and she don’t wear loads of make up I don’t wear any normally . It’s the things she likes I can’t explain it interestingly I am stronger than her so that’s why it’s alien to me when women say how men scare them they don’t scare me never have . That’s me though I am prob more butch then what people think women should be not me women can be anything my hair is shaved at the min on one side and hers isn’t . The point is I know who I am she knows who she is and yes many of you won’t agree that’s fine but she causes no risk to any one. The mindset that some on here think trans women do really need to start talking to trans women more in person not online

Not really that’s basic as fxxx because you have intersex people who see themselves as women who may have a penis and quite frankly when I look at her I don’t see that because we ain’t all obsessed with that

In many ways yes I do see them as a woman like me I see no difference since she’s been on hormones I am defo stronger than she is that’s a fact now that’s not gonna be the case for everyone but it is for us I treat her like I treat other women

The problem I have is dodgy blokes could have done that anyway they sure as hell all won’t pretend to be women and I know it could make some risk more but I feel rapists don’t care what’s in the cubicles they will just come in anyways

No it’s not in the way she dresses at all it’s in mannerisms I can not do two things at once as many women supposedly can she can. She is much more like a house wife type I am defo not. She’s into more feminine stuff I am not the point is I don’t care what anyone looks like or behaves like I treat them how they are now you might not agree that’s fine

Wow!

So you believe being a woman is based purely on societies outdated view of how women should behave?

I struggle to concentrate on more than 1 task at once....thank you peri menopause.
I have 4DC work full time and am not a housewife.
What is feminine stuff exactly?
Am I a man because I don't to what your friend who behaves like a woman does? In fact you say you can't do those things so does that make you a man too?

No you are not a man because you know you are not I am using them as examples I don’t care genders can do whatever they want there is no norms, I don’t care for labels if someone says they are a woman I will treat them like that that’s the end of that for me

But that's all stereotypes. Do you think that real men should do X, while real women should do Y?

Is a camp gay man that likes cooking/jewellery-making/ballet really a woman?

I'm not feminine at all, my hobbies include playing with lasers and electronics. I have PCOS so can grow a better beard than my husband. My husband is currently learning how to sew, my older son has just started a textiles GSCE and my younger son loves gymnastics. None of it changes their sex. They are perfect as they are.

A man can look however they want and have any mannerisms, personality, or partner, but they will always be male.

No you are not a man because you know you are not

The reason I know I am not a man is because I am female. Thats it. It has nothing to do with how I dress or behave or what I like it's simply down to being female that's what makes me a woman.
We don't have toilets based on gender if we did we would need dozens of them wouldn't we?
We have spaces based on sex/biology not on how someone likes to be a housewife or prefers make up to football!

And yet interestingly in places like france the opposite sexes do share toilets

No I don’t but it’s more complicated then she has diff chromosomes etc I believe a person if they say they are a woman now unless that person is showing any dodgy signs then why not? Why does it actually matter it shouldn’t make you feel less of a woman?

More womanly than you?

Well first off, what is womanly?

It doesn't make me feel less of a woman. But it also doesn't make them a woman either.
Just to clarify, you realise that to be a transwoman you don't need to do anything other than think it.
Are you picturing these lovely harmless TW that try their best to pass, rather than the new style that are unapologetically looking like men?
Alex Drummond, who works for Stonewall. Would you see Alex as a woman?

And yet interestingly in places like france the opposite sexes do share toilets

Yes they do there are floor to ceiling lockable cubical with sinks in many place there are also many many axes that remain male and female only. Whats your point?
As I said toilets are based on biology not gender as there are more than 2 genders so....