NC because I'm ashamed of how I'm feeling

[MigraineLevel9000]

Please if you have 5 minutes to read and reply, I ask you to do so. I really need help.

Where to start 😩

I have the most clever, funny, interesting, soon to be 6 year old little girl.

She is also making me want to throw myself off a bridge.

I feel like I spend all of my time asking her over and over again to do the same basic, easy to do tasks. I ask her nicely, she won't do it. I repeat the request firmly, she won't do it. I make it very clear this is the last time I'll ask, she usually begrudgingly does what is asked if her. Something that should take 30 seconds turns into 15 minutes of nonsense.

She talks back to me, but she is erudite and has fantastic vocabulary, she would almost make you doubt that what you're asking her is reasonable. She has an answer to everything.

She is incredibly energetic and sporty, this isn't a laziness issue it is pure stubbornness.

She's sharp as a tack, very witty and likeable. She had good friends, is happy at school and achieves well. But her poor teacher 😩 the entire first year of school was constant messages home, being pulled aside at school pick up by her teacher with the days latest nonsense. With exactly the same complaints I suffer with at home.

Her teacher even said she almost feels gas lit some days, because my daughter is so polite and calm when she's openly defying you and point blank not listening to whatever is asked of her. You so question yourself!

The teacher also commented that she is doing remarkably well at school considering she often decides she's not doing the work, gets up from the table and walks off, generally being an imp. If she actually applied herself she would do incredibly.

She is kept entertained, in plenty of extracurricular clubs, she swims, she does ballet, she has lots of time at home doing crafts, loves to draw, but fuck me she is just a nightmare to live with.

I'm now at a stage of daily migraines, I dread spending the day with her. Isn't that awful? I feel sick typing it because I can't convey how much I love this child but I'm done in.

I've just put her in bed. She's asleep, I'm in tears on the sofa because yet again I've only gotten 1/10th of the things done today I needed to because every single step was met with pure opposition. It's like wading through mud.

Please, tell me I'm not alone, tell me it ends?

Better yet, tell me how the hell I make this better.

X

She sounds very much like some of the autistic girls I have taught.

I asked her teacher this several times over the past year, she just didn't think it fit for my daughter at all. I've also spoken with the HV twice (she was out to see the baby) and she has said the same, there's no indication. To be honest, as ridiculous as it sounds, I'd have been happier if she was, to have a reason / explanation, but she just doesn't tick any of the diagnostic boxes.

Sometimes kids don't need a label at every given chance when they have bad behaviour. Everyone always runs to "he/she sounds autistic" no, sometimes they just act up nothing else to it. Have you sat her down and spoke to her about how it's making you feel?

That's for replying, pier.

Yes we have had chats. She's very emotionally capable and does seem to understand her behaviour is upsetting and difficult. She does say sorry readily but straight back to playing up at the first opportunity.

I have a horrible feeling she understands completely but chooses to do as she pleases.

She sounds similar to my autistic daughter at that age too. Health visitors and teachers aren’t trained in spotting autistic girls. My dds (very wonderful and experienced) reception teacher actually laughed when I first suggested autism.
Obviously autism isn’t the only answer - but if it’s something you are concerned about I wouldn’t rule it out because of what the health visitor said.

This really interesting.. if you have the time would you be prepared to share a little about other traits your daughter has that now you have a diagnosis make more sense? It might help me see if I'm missing something or haven't put it down to ASD. X

This sounds very similar to DD (5) who we believe to be NT.

She has been outsmarting us since she was small, she could speak in full sentences before 18months, and was using sarcasm by 2yo.

She is smart, excellent company, interesting, creative, has the memory of an elephant, is friendly, very very fair minded and thoughtful.

But oh my dear LORD she is difficult.

She always thinks she knows better. Always.
She doesn't even seem to realise that 'talking back' is not okay.
She can always find a loophole in any deal we male.
She wanders around leaving a trail of disaster behind her.
She absolutely WILL NOT do what she's asked, unless she's in the very exact mood for doing that precise thing.

She sounds like a nightmare, and if she wasn't so funny and fair, she would be.

It's a battle I understand OP.

Everyone used to say that I would listen very politely and then go off and do exactly what I wanted 😂

I was diagnosed with high functioning autism (asperger's) in my thirties.

Take from those two statements what you will.

Oh my goodness, yes THIS! You've phrased it all better than I did, this is her exactly. We actually call her queen of the loophole! If there's a way around something she will find it quicker than you can blink.

And thinking she knows better, she always has a plan, always has an idea in her head of how she wants things to go, regardless of the other people around her who need to be accommodated too.

That being said, just like your little girl, she's incredibly sweet, knows right from wrong, loving, very very fair with her friends and so on.

Please tell me how you cope 😩

I’d find it really concerning for a a teacher to report feeling ‘gaslit’ by a five year old student, even if that five year old may be ND/have SEN. That’s so not an appropriate way to frame disobedient behaviour in a young child.

Yes that could describe her too!

Can you pin point, looking back, any characteristics or traits that you now believe to be part of your diagnosis? With my daughter I've checked every checklist I can find, asked whoever will listen and give an opinion and so far I just can't get the ASD to fit, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something that perhaps only those with loved experience might be able to highlight.

Yes of course. Im just about to do something but I will reply tomorrow.

Have you read about PDA at all? Perhaps see if she fits any of that criteria.

I find it really hard when DS (5) is having days where he won't do anything I ask so you have some solidarity in that - it's so difficult. I know he's an angel at school though and I'm so thankful for that.

I'm really sorry you're struggling and the holidays won't be making it any easier. Can you try a reward chart? She gets a sticker every time she does something you ask the first time, and a certain amount of stickers gets her something she really wants? Positive reinforcement can work wonders!

I have to say, myself and the teacher really bonded over the year and she absolutely adores the bones of my daughter, it was said in a very light manner after the absolute worst day in school to date for my daughter. I won't go into too much detail but she caused entire derailment the entire day, but was so sweet and seemingly caring about the disruption she had caused that it would have set a lot of people off kilter. It's hard to explain, but my daughter can be very disorienting to be around. She explains herself so well you'd almost agree with her reasoning, if you didn't know better!

The joy of having highly intelligent children is that they have wonderful techniques for getting out of doing the mundane uninteresting stuff. I was one of those kids (and adults) and my daughter is one. The thing is I know all the tricks so she cant get away with it so easily.

At 6 a rewards system might still work but it needs consistency. The rewards might need to be amazing too.

Its not really an autistic thing, although it can be it just sounds like an intelligence thing and immaturity. Maybe she’s bored at school and that’s why she’s doing great work but still acting up?

ASD in girls presents very differently to boys. It's incredibly common for females to be diagnosed in adulthood as their symptoms didn't match the default male patterns, so I wouldn't take the HV and teacher's reluctance as gospel.

There's an Irish journalist called Stefanie Preissner who was diagnosed with autism in adulthood and she shares a lot of her experience on Instagram. It's fascinating how she has matched up her 'quirks' with her autism and how it has helped her better understand herself; she has since led many women to go and get tested and diagnosed.

This is absolutely not to say that your daughter is autistic, but some of what you have described does sound similar.

Thanks so much for the reply!

I haven't heard of PDA at all, I'm off to Google, thank you!

Positive reinforcement works to a degree, she's very receptive to praise, however once she's adamant about something, no negotiation or reward for doing the right thing works.

Stop all activities until she can behave. She has to ' earn' doing nice stuff. If she can't be nice to you then she doesn't get nice things.

@MigraineLevel9000 how we cope... barely.

What I find really interesting is what she does when we're not trying to steer her.

She's an only child, and DH and I both work long hours, so when we're not working she gets a lot of adult input, back-to-back activities, clubs, experiences... but last weekend DH and I needed to clear the garage, so she had some time to herself, to play without much intervention. During that time she independently:

• Did two yoga sessions (Cosmic yoga)


• Made a paper flower headdress (including cutting, hole punching over 50 flowers, and threading them)


• Listened to an audio book


• Made paper shoes each comprising five different parts stuck together

It was really interesting to see what she'd do when we weren't trying to make her do anything, and I was really heartened that what she did was creative and varied, and not just watching TV.

I don't think she has pathological demand avoidance, or anything like that, she just has a very clear idea of what she WANTS to do.

My biggest worry is "am I raising an asshole?" But as long as she's friendly and fair, I hope that's not the case.

Of course there are days when we need to do stuff, house stuff, family stuff, going out... and on those days I just grit my teeth and repeat myself for hours on end.

I'm following with interest OP as my six year old boy is exactly like this - the defiance, the constant exhausting arguing over everything. Every little task through the day has been a fight, for years.
He also has some sensory issues, problems with foods leading to an incredibly restrictive diet, problems with toileting. We were referred to paediatrics who ruled out ASD ( but didn't do any sort of testing). They suspect dyspraxia which I was surprised by as although DS struggles a bit with some tasks I hadn't thought of it - we had an assessment for this a couple of weeks ago and are awaiting results.
I would be very interested in any strategies people used for dealing with children with similar behaviour, whatever the diagnosis.

She sounds very like my dd at that age. She was diagnosed with asd at 11. The signs weren’t obvious at that age but we had a feeling something wasn’t right. She was very well behaved and compliment at school so teachers couldn’t see what I described as her behaviour at home.

What is she like socially? At that age, my dd had a nice little group of friends but she was quite controlling and later on (from year 4 I’d say) friendships became a huge problem. As a toddler, she’d be very overfamiliar with strangers and wouldn’t hesitate to strike up a monologue with other children’s parents at the park.

She doesn’t sound autistic to me, but does sound manipulative, lazy, and rude. I do know autistic girls who have been missed though so I suppose it’s possible. What difference would it make if she was? I mean you’d still want to curb the behaviour and it wouldn’t change who she was. It sounds like she has a lot of activities and attention regardless of how she behaves? Perhaps cut back on all the activities and reinstate when she behaves better. Lots of your language does minimise her behaviour, an “imp” is kinda cute, rude not so much.

Sounds like a six year old to me.

@MigraineLevel9000 can we have some specific examples, if you said to her ' go upstairs and brush your teeth please we need to leave for school in ten minutes' what would happen ?

Yes of course! Should have included some. Here's one from today for example:

(If mentioned about 10 minutes before this thay we were leaving soon, and she acknowledged me)

"We need to leave in a few minutes, shoes on please"

"I'm just finishing my colouring"

"You can do it when we get home, put it up on the table and come and put your shoes on"

"Let me finish this part"

"I've asked you twice now, come on please"

"But when I stop and start the shading doesn't look the same and I'll forget which pencil I was using and this has taken me such a long time"

"Put the pencil you're using on top of the picture and put it all on the table, now"

** ~ignores me~

"Now please"

"But this is for (my friends name who's been unwell) and we pass her house on the way I want to give it to her"

"That's a kind thought but we can push it through the letter box tomorrow, we have to be leaving now"

~ignores me~

"Me and your sister are ready, I'm going now"

(I make for the front door)

"You can't leave me on my own, I'm 5, you'll get into trouble, I'm nearly finished now anyway"

She then proceeds to ask me where the envelopes are, it needs an envelope... I need to write out the name / address on a piece of paper so she can copy it, she doesn't like the shoes she has, can she not ride on the buggy, why can't she ride on the buggy board, can we not go the long way so we pass the park, perhaps we can go to a different shop, not the one I'm going to, how many things do you need to buy mummy, constant questions that she argues with when she doesn't like the answer. But, and this is the tricky part for me, she's never rude in tone (although I do acknowledge her behaviour is) and stays very calm, doesn't shout or cry or tantrum. And her memory is phenomenal, for example when I said no to the shop she wanted us to go to instead, she then asked what I was buying and when I told her, she pointed out that months ago I said in passing I preferred the coffee pods out of the store she wanted to go to, and that I have a gift card for the one she wants to go to that she heard me tell daddy it needed to be used soon. It's just a constant battle, especially when sometimes she does make you stop and think, and so I then doubt myself and I think she sees that chink in the armour and keeps going at it.

Non of this probably makes much sense, it's been a very long day and I'm very burned out 😩