NC because I'm ashamed of how I'm feeling

[MigraineLevel9000]

Please if you have 5 minutes to read and reply, I ask you to do so. I really need help.

Where to start 😩

I have the most clever, funny, interesting, soon to be 6 year old little girl.

She is also making me want to throw myself off a bridge.

I feel like I spend all of my time asking her over and over again to do the same basic, easy to do tasks. I ask her nicely, she won't do it. I repeat the request firmly, she won't do it. I make it very clear this is the last time I'll ask, she usually begrudgingly does what is asked if her. Something that should take 30 seconds turns into 15 minutes of nonsense.

She talks back to me, but she is erudite and has fantastic vocabulary, she would almost make you doubt that what you're asking her is reasonable. She has an answer to everything.

She is incredibly energetic and sporty, this isn't a laziness issue it is pure stubbornness.

She's sharp as a tack, very witty and likeable. She had good friends, is happy at school and achieves well. But her poor teacher 😩 the entire first year of school was constant messages home, being pulled aside at school pick up by her teacher with the days latest nonsense. With exactly the same complaints I suffer with at home.

Her teacher even said she almost feels gas lit some days, because my daughter is so polite and calm when she's openly defying you and point blank not listening to whatever is asked of her. You so question yourself!

The teacher also commented that she is doing remarkably well at school considering she often decides she's not doing the work, gets up from the table and walks off, generally being an imp. If she actually applied herself she would do incredibly.

She is kept entertained, in plenty of extracurricular clubs, she swims, she does ballet, she has lots of time at home doing crafts, loves to draw, but fuck me she is just a nightmare to live with.

I'm now at a stage of daily migraines, I dread spending the day with her. Isn't that awful? I feel sick typing it because I can't convey how much I love this child but I'm done in.

I've just put her in bed. She's asleep, I'm in tears on the sofa because yet again I've only gotten 1/10th of the things done today I needed to because every single step was met with pure opposition. It's like wading through mud.

Please, tell me I'm not alone, tell me it ends?

Better yet, tell me how the hell I make this better.

X

I do acknowledge I can be guilty of minimising. But I think at this point it's been going on for such a long time and I'm so very lost that there's a lot of blame I'm putting on myself and my own parenting, and I think it's hard for any mum to say unkind things about their child? We are all trying to do our best, and whilst I understand her behaviours to need to be addressed, I'm going to try not to demonise her in the process, because I already feel pretty awful for not enjoying her company at the moment as it is. She's certainly not lazy though, the child never stops, she's always doing something. Just unfortunately never seems to be the things I'm asking of her.

Essentially I'd rather not write her off as a brat, she's a lovely child in essence.

OP this could so easily be my DD - I've never known another child quite like it, but this is EXACTLY like her.

Rational, eloquent, polite - BUT A COMPLETE PAIN IN THE ASS.

And their memory!!! It's astounding.

In your example you give too many chances and no consequences. If it's always the same no wonder she is proficient at not doing as she is told.
For me, I'd give a two minute warning, even better if you have a timer so that she can see the time left. So I'd say in two minutes you need to stop and put your shoes on. When timer runs out I'd say "right shoes on now" If she didn't I'd gather up the pencils and paper and take them away and repeat "shoes on now" telling her that she would get them back tomorrow when she would be able to practice getting her shoes on when told so as not to have her pencils and paper removed.

does sound manipulative, lazy, and rude.

What a horrible thing to write about a not-yet-6 yo. 😡

Essentially I'd rather not write her off as a brat, she's a lovely child in essence.

You're so right OP - your daughter is lovely, which doesn't mean that she's also not challenging to manage at the moment.

I think you're doing your best.

It's difficult to know if she might be autistic - or it's her personality. I think you can only continue to observe & continue what you are doing.

She sounds like a particularly bright child who is well able to get what she wants!

I suppose I do give too many chances, I'm open to that. I have been much more direct and done similar to as you suggested in previous situations, however she always seems to find the next thing to argue about, if that makes sense? Like today, as soon as the colouring in issue was resolved it moved in to envelopes, then the buggy board, the route we would take, which shop... it feels a bit relentless no matter how I deal with it she always has the next thing lined up to cause delay / stress. I'm wondering though if I persevered with consistently "the first chance is your only chance" type of parenting whether it would eventually ease?

You've given me something to consider anyway, so thank you x

@Throwawaytoday

You have my utmost sympathy and understanding! It's wildly tricky to explain isn't it? And I'm doing a pretty poor job of portraying her here this evening, but it seems like you are the mum of her twin so you get it!

I just wish I knew if this is just her personality, or a phase, or how the hell to get through it without going utterly insane. I can't quite get across how exhausting it is. Everything is seen as a negotiation, rather than a request. A loose plan rather than a set one, everything in her little world is open to interpretation and change, absolutely no notion in her to follow any rules set by anyone else.

Your example was exhausting. You don't have to have a dialogue with her.

"We need to leave in a few minutes, shoes on please"

But...

I want you to put your shoes on now please.

But...

I want you to put your shoes on.

But...

Shoes. Now.

@MigraineLevel9000 I have a son and a daughter with autism so I give warnings (a visual marker of time passing helps) and I keep the chat to a minimum because they might not hear the instructions if they are surrounded by chat. I also follow the same sort of routine warning, instruction, reminder, consequence. The consistency helps, they know what comes next and when they need to jump to it.

OP, she does sound very much like my youngest, extraordinarily clever - and can be a complete pain. She is actually a bit scary sometimes, a little adult (oh so clever, manipulative and with a memory like an elephant) in the body of a tiny child.

I just explain everything to my DD. “We need to go now, because if we are late X will consider us very rude and we may not be invited over again. And also, mummy will be very upset as mummy hate being late and badly mannered.” Or ” you have to eat an egg this morning because you have not eaten enough protein yesterday . Protein is what will build your body to it grows taller and also help rebuild your cells. Did you know that an egg has the most amazing combination of amino acids? How would you like your egg?”

Mine responds well to having the world explained to her. And she loves me and doesn’t want me unhappy. I love her so, so much as well. But I do feel sorry for her teachers.

@MigraineLevel9000

"I'm wondering though if I persevered with consistently "the first chance is your only chance" type of parenting whether it would eventually ease?"

I think it would, OP. You definitely sound like a good parent who wants the best, and your DD sounds intriguing (and very bright!).

But, you are negotiating too much. Every time she has an answer, you respond back. It goes on and on and on. That's why you are exhausted.

Have you tried having conversations with her about why it is often important for her to do as you say, when you say it? She seems to lack understanding of the impact on others. This could point to Autism, or it could not.

Also meant to ask - what are the consequences of her behaviour? Both at home and school?

She sounds very likeable, but the way you describe her behaviour, particularly at school (getting up from her table etc.) is likely to be having an impact on the class as a whole.

Yes as a previous poster said, you should have just taken the colouring book off her. And so what if she starts wittering on about envelopes, put her shoes on for her (whilst commenting how babyish she is if she can't even do that) and leave the house. She's 5 not 25, you are in control here. You seem quite in awe of her , instead of just really bloody annoyed with her shit which is what I would be.

Hi Op, I feel you.
My dayghter is exactly the same, she will be 5 this December.
Did not realise how hard it would be over the summer when shes out of preschool.
I am drading every morning because I know what is coming.
I also have a 10 month old who needs my attention.
Nobody understand the struggle, my friends and family always say " oh shes is such a sweet and inteligent girl" .
She is HARD WORK.
Every single day ...
From the moment I open my eyes .
I think the worst for me at the moment is that I cannot take her out to the shop, she will ask for my shopping list and make sure that I follow it so I dont forget about her thing , she will ask the same question 100 times to make sure she feels assured.
I often look at her with other children and other children actually behave like children where she behaves like a grown up woman compare to them.
I have this gut feeling that she is just different, that theres something that I dont know yet.

Oh dear, OP looking at the other as ice here, you probably need to figure out by trial and error what works for your DD.

Mine cooperates when she understands why it is important or to make me happy. She would not function well with strict boundaries and lack of explanations… at all…

I've read through the thread and haven't seen anything about what consequences you are implementing when she refuses to listen to you?

The colouring example, i would have asked once then when she refused I would have explained that she could either set it aside to finish it later or I would pack it away and she would not get it back that day.

Then I would have followed through on that.

My DD was a bit like this at 6. I'm surprised the teacher finds her difficult - that seems unusual to me.

Techniques I have found that helped were making sure she knew in plenty of time what was happening - preferably the whole day.

Plenty of warnings 'you're going to bed to pack up your pens in 5 minutes/3minutes/ 1 more minute'

It sounds ridiculous but saying 'it's time to pack up' rather than 'pack up' worked better.

Counting down from 5 with or without a consequence (never got to zero but did do quite a few half numbers)

Had some success with a marble jar for good behaviour at this age. She did NOT like having them taken away though - it worked but I sometimes wondered if it was worth the upset.

Both my DDs were nicknamed 'the lawyer ' at about this age - I think it's a (n irritating) stage where they are practising their skills of rhetoric!

Fwiw my DD is now at 11 being assessed for ASD bit this did not become evident until quite recently. I have always thought she was a bit different though. However she has always been extremely obedient at school.

Sorry I meant to expand on the 'time to' thing - I found that if I presented things as a routine inexorable thing like 'teeth time' or 'time to pack up' or 'shoes time' this felt more like an inevitability that just happens than me telling her what to do.

This may work for some children, not all. Some children would react really badly to this, and it would be counter-productive.

It's a myth that the same consequences work for all children.

I think OP is doing a good job with the dialogue, frankly.

That's also a good point.

My DD3 was like this in as much as she was a "finisher" she would play her game faster because we were going out but she had to finish it.

Hurrying and chiding just didn't work she would be distraught.

As a young adult she is very responsible and thorough and has always been caring.

Her 3 siblings have ND diagnosis so I suspect she does too tbh.

Sorry you feel so exhausted OP.

This is a fascinating thread. DS is autistic. He wasn't diagnosed until he was 12, as he didn't present as a typically autistic male but he was very much as you describe - very verbal early on, being sarcastic from a very young age, impossible to 'teach' to do anything. He had to do things his way in his own time. Still does, aged 20. No advice on strategies that would make his life easier ever sinks in.

I found two things helped (he also has ADHD so thsi may have been more related to that.) never give two-step or more instructions. Give one step instructions. So not 'Go upstairs and get dressed. But 'Go upstairs. Are you upstairs now? good. Put on your pants. Are you pants on yet? Good put on your trousers' etc. Very boring but nicer than having rows and tantrums.

The other things is to offer them a choice both of which are win win for you, so if, say, you need them to take medicine and they don't want to , you say, 'Do yu want the calpol in the squirty syringe or on a spoon? And do you want a sticker or a chocolate button to say well done after you had it?

Doesn't always work but can do, and reduces power battles a bit.

@EarringsandLipstick

The dialogue isn't working though, is it? Because there is too much dialogue every time, and the OP is exhausted. It sounds like everything is met with 'but, but, but...'

Sometimes? No buts. Just do. I love you, and I respect you, but I am the parent and you are the child, and sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, at times we don't want to do them. Welcome to life. It's a tough game.

This sounds like my daughter she's also 6 other than the "gas lighting" the teachers.

Tbh I just thought it was her age and the hormonal change girls go through at this age and pushing boundaries . A few of the other mums I have asked about this with girls in my daughters class have said the same thing.

Talking back with extreme sas, attitude, in ability to listen, doesn't stop talking, sit still or follow instructions.

Sorry to hear this. Even if she had ASD as suggested which doesn’t seem likely tbh, I think your daughter needs better boundaries and discipline. Children esp NT children need structures and discipline to keep them in check. She needs to know there are consequences for not doing tasks and talking back/being rude. You mention lots of activities, might be worth cutting back and spending some more time with her just to study her better and spend more time with her. Personally think she’s testing your boundaries and she knows she can get away with anything