NC because I'm ashamed of how I'm feeling

[MigraineLevel9000]

Please if you have 5 minutes to read and reply, I ask you to do so. I really need help.

Where to start 😩

I have the most clever, funny, interesting, soon to be 6 year old little girl.

She is also making me want to throw myself off a bridge.

I feel like I spend all of my time asking her over and over again to do the same basic, easy to do tasks. I ask her nicely, she won't do it. I repeat the request firmly, she won't do it. I make it very clear this is the last time I'll ask, she usually begrudgingly does what is asked if her. Something that should take 30 seconds turns into 15 minutes of nonsense.

She talks back to me, but she is erudite and has fantastic vocabulary, she would almost make you doubt that what you're asking her is reasonable. She has an answer to everything.

She is incredibly energetic and sporty, this isn't a laziness issue it is pure stubbornness.

She's sharp as a tack, very witty and likeable. She had good friends, is happy at school and achieves well. But her poor teacher 😩 the entire first year of school was constant messages home, being pulled aside at school pick up by her teacher with the days latest nonsense. With exactly the same complaints I suffer with at home.

Her teacher even said she almost feels gas lit some days, because my daughter is so polite and calm when she's openly defying you and point blank not listening to whatever is asked of her. You so question yourself!

The teacher also commented that she is doing remarkably well at school considering she often decides she's not doing the work, gets up from the table and walks off, generally being an imp. If she actually applied herself she would do incredibly.

She is kept entertained, in plenty of extracurricular clubs, she swims, she does ballet, she has lots of time at home doing crafts, loves to draw, but fuck me she is just a nightmare to live with.

I'm now at a stage of daily migraines, I dread spending the day with her. Isn't that awful? I feel sick typing it because I can't convey how much I love this child but I'm done in.

I've just put her in bed. She's asleep, I'm in tears on the sofa because yet again I've only gotten 1/10th of the things done today I needed to because every single step was met with pure opposition. It's like wading through mud.

Please, tell me I'm not alone, tell me it ends?

Better yet, tell me how the hell I make this better.

X

Last thing, appealing to her sense of empathy can help. Like DD is faffing in the car not collecting her stuff/getting out - saying 'I'm standing here getting cold waiting for you DD' works better than 'get out now'.

If the approaches suggested above don't work over a sustained period of time, and start to cause worrying responses from your daughter, then I would recommend looking into PDA.

I work with secondary age students, so admittedly can't claim to be any expert regarding primary students, but I do work with a number of students with ASD. Those with PDA are very adept at negotiating and/or finding subtle distraction tactics to avoid doing exactly what you would like them to do, sometimes in a way that means you don't even really notice that they're avoiding. It presents very differently in girls, who often have highly developed communication skills, but whose capacity to "blend in" and adapt means it is likely to be underdiagnosed or diagnosed later on in life, especially as it's still a relatively "unknown" type of ASD.

There will be a wealth of advice on the Internet, but presenting commands as choices is often very much recommended, or framing commands as questions that suggest an element of choice - "do you think you would be able to do that".

Good luck, OP - hope you find some solutions.

Oh ffs I've just seen into my future 😫 mine is not even 4.

😭😭😭😭😭😭

This with bells on

Honestly? Unless there was an extremely pressing reason to leave the house at that time (an appointment for example) I’d have let her finish the picture. Because it IS bloody frustrating when you have to arbitrarily stop halfway through a task to do something else. (FWIW, difficulties with transitions can be a sign of ASD.) I had a ds a bit like this who is now training to be an actual lawyer.. heaven help opposing counsel!

I have DD like yours. She is 11yo now and still tries arguing from time to time. When she was younger, it was a constant battle for everything, until I've developed a technique where I wouldn't ask, but TELL HER: 'you have 5minutes to finish your picture. Now go and put your shoes on. I am not asking you to do it, I am telling you.' Eventually, she got better and now even hangs washed clothes on line in the garden or stacks the dishwasher without talking back 💪💪
I always thought my DD was very bright, but very stubborn. And she always had a plan in her head and everything needed to be 'just like the last time' or she'll have a meltdown. She is absolutely grown out of it now. Really never thought to label her with any 'syndrome'

@MrsRinaDecker that’s not going to work at school though is it?What about the other 32 kids who are waiting for her to finish? Can they also finish theirs? She needs to learn that she isn’t the grownup

What turquoise said. She appears to be getting a lot of attention and interaction from the behaviour.
In your example I would set boundaries clearly from the outset.-
This is not for discussion I am in charge and I will not be answering any questions. In 15 mins we are leaving. I will count down. If you do not stop colouring in 10 minutes the consequence will be that I take your picture away. As soon as we are shoes on out the door you can ask me all the questions you have and we can discuss.
Stick to it very very firmly and do not enter any further conversation.

For less important things let her have some power? Eg you can decide which shop we go to.

What turquoise said. She appears to be getting a lot of attention and interaction from the behaviour.
In your example I would set boundaries clearly from the outset.-
This is not for discussion I am in charge and I will not be answering any questions. In 15 mins we are leaving. I will count down. If you do not stop colouring in 10 minutes the consequence will be that I take your picture away. As soon as we are shoes on out the door you can ask me all the questions you have and we can discuss.
Stick to it very very firmly and do not enter any further conversation.

For less important things let her have some power? Eg you can decide which shop we go to.

PDA. Telling you.

There is an excellent book called ‘setting limits with your strong willed child’ and it is absolutely BRILLIANT. Please get this as it is so clear. Some children are just harder to manage than others. Explorers 😉

However, any parent I know who had been in this state because of their child’s behaviour, had an assessment and their child either had ADHD or autism.

the teachers and health visitor do not know her, you do.
do you think, deep down that there is something going on?

if you do the you have to get an assessment to find out. Don’t put it off and don’t be put off. If there is nothing going on, then great.

Then that book I recommended will really really help.

good luck.

Sorry OP, I know this sounds harsh but I just think the idea that her teacher ‘adores the bones of your daughter’ and that you’ve ‘bonded’ over her frequently having to pull you for chats over her misbehaviour is a daft and unhelpful way for you to be thinking. She’s five and probably still reasonably cute now and you’re finding her behaviour massively stressful; before long it’s going to cause her serious problems at school and no one, teachers nor other students, will be adoring her bones for it. Broadly speaking, kids need to do as they’re told by adults. You need to make that clear to her.

I’m another with a child with an ASD diagnosis. The consultant said that PDA isn’t an official diagnosis but that is how he presents.

If it is ASD as the suggestions about implementing rules and consequences will just make things worse not better. For DS we find that he manages transitions much better if he knows what to expect. So in your example, the night before we’d say we need to leave at 9am to go to wherever and explain the broad plan for the morning. In the morning, we’d say it’s 7am now, need to leave at 9 and go through how the next couple of hours would be spent, repeating through the morning. We’ve tried pictures and lists etc but for him, the best is the constant repetition of what the plan for the day is.

This is very much like my dd, except she's not quite like it at school. She is not an angel there but not like she is at home. Taking away the colouring after one chance would likely have led to wailing and still refusing to put shoes on.
She is worse at night - bedtime takes ages. And so much fuss about brushing teeth.
I do wonder about ASD or ADHD but she doesn't quite tick the boxes either.
It's definitely exhausting!

Cut any chances for arguments.
Keep what you want her to do short and direct.
For example if you are on your way out of the house give 10 min warning then when time is up say "toilet and shoes now" keep repeating it like a broken record.
Keep commands short and direct and don’t fall into her trap of requests. You steer the ship. Be firm and consistent.

She sounds very similar to my DD (though with some differences. DD does tantrum though mostly behaves in school). DD is 6 and has a very high need for control. She is adopted and has some mild attachment issues, which probably give rise to it.

I can relate to so much of what you’re saying on the negotiation. It’s EXHAUSTING. We are actually getting some professional support in parenting DD at the moment and we chose the endless negotiation as the first thing we wanted to work on.

The therapist (who is v child centred, attachment focused etc) basically encouraged us to be firmer and to examine our attitudes to conflict and what might be getting in the way of being firm.

She encouraged us to experiment with using our firm voice - not shouting, but being slightly louder and no nonsense. DD has actually been responding quite well to that.

I’ve also just brought the negotiations to an end by saying ‘this conversation is over. I’ve told you my decisions and my reasons. There’s nothing else for us to discuss now’

That sounds pretty harsh when I write it down like that but I’ve found it’s really necessary to get some control back and in fact, DD just moves on happily to something else.

My mum used to console me by saying that at least she’d be able to say no to drug dealers but it’s bloody hard work.

by Saying keywords like toilet, teeth, shoes, clean up, you are getting rid of the noise and clutter of long sentences to help her focus better, keeping you focused on what you want her to do, shows you’re not messing around and that you mean business!

Sounds like my son. He talks me round in circles and spends hours elaborately getting out of doing tasks.

Diagnosed with autism at 8. His SEND high school said it was PDA but that isn't diagnosed here.

I thought PDA potentially as well.
Also, is she tired? You mention she does a lot of extra curriculars; does she need more blank time that she can fill as she chooses (within reason)?
Another thought was, you mentioned you've a baby, too. Is she perhaps reacting to this change in family dynamics?

for you; it's hard and I wish I had a magic answer because it would make my life a lot easier, too!

After reading your update I think you need to repeat the same instructions EXACTLY as you said them the first time. I did a course about communication with children (with autism but it is helpful with every child)

If you think about it, adults can be a bit confusing.

’please put on your coat now’

then
’hurry up we need to leave’

’coat on please, it’s cold outside’

these sound the same to us, but to a child, these are 3 different instructions and it’s like the first time they heard it each time.

try saying something and count to 15 to let it sink in, then say it exactly the same again. You could also try writing instructions and handing them to her, or else handing her s picture.

I really think you should consider an assessment but for now, just take a deep breath, you survived another day.

I was like this as a child. I suspect I was very, very similar to OPs DD.

I've just been diagnosed with ADHD at nearly 40. I also have a very high IQ and one of the traits of ADHD that I have is that my brain has a kind of faster processing speed.

Something to consider.

That being said, like your DD I did very well in education even with ADHD because I learn very quickly.

It wasn't really until I was in my late 20s / early 30s when I started to get more responsibilities outside of education/work that it started to impact me (other than impulsive behaviour which was always a problem!)

'I had a ds a bit like this who is now training to be an actual lawyer.. heaven help opposing counsel!'

Why? Do you think she'll constantly outmanoeuvre them with her brilliance? 🙄

I agree with others that I’d try being much firmer with her and refusing to have the endless negotiations. My DC with ASD has similar behaviours and professionals have commented that he presents more like a girl would with ASD. He responds to very firm boundaries with consequences that he knows will absolutely happen. Initially we had huge meltdowns when those consequences happened but now he knows he needs to do as he’s told or suffer the loss of screen time, or a favourite toy etc. I often say “I’m not discussing it, you need to do as you’re told NOW”. I would definitely look into PDA and ODD. I also agree that teachers and HV won’t necessarily recognise what’s really going on.

I've also remembered the 9 second rule. Give your instruction, then let 9 seconds pass for it to be processed.

God forbid a parent should be proud of their child and think they’ll do well in their career…