NC because I'm ashamed of how I'm feeling

[MigraineLevel9000]

Please if you have 5 minutes to read and reply, I ask you to do so. I really need help.

Where to start 😩

I have the most clever, funny, interesting, soon to be 6 year old little girl.

She is also making me want to throw myself off a bridge.

I feel like I spend all of my time asking her over and over again to do the same basic, easy to do tasks. I ask her nicely, she won't do it. I repeat the request firmly, she won't do it. I make it very clear this is the last time I'll ask, she usually begrudgingly does what is asked if her. Something that should take 30 seconds turns into 15 minutes of nonsense.

She talks back to me, but she is erudite and has fantastic vocabulary, she would almost make you doubt that what you're asking her is reasonable. She has an answer to everything.

She is incredibly energetic and sporty, this isn't a laziness issue it is pure stubbornness.

She's sharp as a tack, very witty and likeable. She had good friends, is happy at school and achieves well. But her poor teacher 😩 the entire first year of school was constant messages home, being pulled aside at school pick up by her teacher with the days latest nonsense. With exactly the same complaints I suffer with at home.

Her teacher even said she almost feels gas lit some days, because my daughter is so polite and calm when she's openly defying you and point blank not listening to whatever is asked of her. You so question yourself!

The teacher also commented that she is doing remarkably well at school considering she often decides she's not doing the work, gets up from the table and walks off, generally being an imp. If she actually applied herself she would do incredibly.

She is kept entertained, in plenty of extracurricular clubs, she swims, she does ballet, she has lots of time at home doing crafts, loves to draw, but fuck me she is just a nightmare to live with.

I'm now at a stage of daily migraines, I dread spending the day with her. Isn't that awful? I feel sick typing it because I can't convey how much I love this child but I'm done in.

I've just put her in bed. She's asleep, I'm in tears on the sofa because yet again I've only gotten 1/10th of the things done today I needed to because every single step was met with pure opposition. It's like wading through mud.

Please, tell me I'm not alone, tell me it ends?

Better yet, tell me how the hell I make this better.

X

I think I was very mu ch like your DD as a child. Now as I’m an adult I’m being assessed for ADHD (or I suspect ADD without the hyperactivity) so I agree with @wheresmymojo this could be something to consider.

if your dd is autistic ( and it’s a big if at the moment) could you be over stimulating her? Ballet, swimming, crafts etc… maybe it’s too much.
Just a thought but maybe cutting down on what she does and reducing what you ask her to do to the bare minimum might give you some respite.
You also mentioned the HV was seeing your baby. Could any of your DDs behaviour be connected to a new sibling?

Lot of people mentioning autism, I have to say OP I could have written this post about my DS and he is not autistic, just 5 going on 6 and exhausting.

I read a book someone on here recommended, called playful parenting, and that does work, but I don't have the patience a lot of the time to get all playful and silly I am ashamed to say. Especially when I am tired and we need to leave the house etc.

You have my sympathy. I really understand how exhausting it is.

Aspergers, apathy ? X

Every barrister has to start somewhere.

This is where.

Agree with others that you’re giving too many chances and doing too much negotiating. You need to be firmer. Also never ever make threats you can’t carry out (e.g. that you’ll go without her), make threats that you can and DO carry out. She’s running rings around you at the moment and she knows she can. Toughen up OP.

I think this is brilliant advice. Some children just don't respond well to consequences. They don't care about them. And they're quite stubborn, so they don't really work. My son's like this. He's MUCH better at negotiations and when he's given options, particularly if I explain why things have to be one of two ways (not explain in a critical way, but a matter of fact way).

I think my son would probably have been diagnosed with ADHD if I'd pursued it at a young age. He's an adult now and good at masking, but he shows many of the traits and has done since he was very young.

Oh, please. She made it sound as though her (not yet a) lawyer daughter is going to run rings around other (also trained) lawyers based on the fact that, when she was a kid, she didn't like being told what to do.

Judges usually take care of that attitude fairly quickly though, so - no worries.

She sounds a bit like my son, except he would probably rather die than not do what his teacher asks him.

I think you're being too soft. You're bargaining with her too much. Kids might not like it, but there's a lot to be said for 'because I said so' and 'I'm the parent, not you'.

If it's a firm case of 'no' then be firm. No you cannot finish your picture. No get your shoes on. If you haven't put away your picture by the time I count to three then I'll put it away and I won't be as careful as you. If you haven't put on your shoes by the time I get to ten I'll pick the ones you're wearing.

I would also not stand for the rudeness of trying to manipulate everything you do. You've got a strong-willed child and a baby right now - if you don't start being a bit stricter with her you'll have a nightmare on your hands with two.

My DS has ASD and, as an adult, has recently been diagnosed with ADHD. I'm not remotely attempting to diagnose your daughter, OP, but there may be some similar traits. My son was highly verbal as a child and could argue the socks off me. (My DD, who is NT, is the same.)

However good your DD's arguments are, you don't have to feed those arguments by engaging with them. You are the adult and you have all the information about the situation - she doesn't. Neither does she have the experience you have. So my advice would be to explain where necessary - my DS was more likely to do something if I presented a reason he found compelling - but otherwise don't engage with her arguments. Simply repeat what she needs to do. If she refuses to do it, let her take the consequences – I did once bundle my DS into the car into his pyjamas and take him into the classroom (I had his school clothes with me in a bag). He was embarrassed and I felt bad about that but on the other hand he was never late getting ready for school again.

I don't mean to make it sound as if I think it's simple - it really isn't. There's nothing more challenging than a challenging child and they can put all their energy into outwitting you while you are dealing with myriad other things. But I think you need to stop being swayed by your DD's clever arguments because she's not clever enough to see the bigger picture - you are.

@MigraineLevel9000 I read your posts and although I don't know if your daughter has asd or not I DO have a technique you could try

This is stolen from a tik toker called onlyjaysus she is an American college student (possibly studying phsycololgy)
She has lots of brothers and sisters and as the oldest had to get them ready.

So she said don't give them a command give them an option (this is to 'trick' them to doing what you want)

Ie. NOT, we need to leave in 2 minutes, get your shoes on

Instead, we're leaving in 2 minutes do you want your red shoes or your blue shoes?

It doesn't matter what it is but give 2 options so they choose one, thereby agreeing to leave. As she has an excellent memory you can then say.

'Come on, I thought you picked blue shoes today, then you can tell me which song we should sing while we walk song a or song b?'

Distract them with the next choice. Or say the wrong shoe Color so they correct you.

Hope that makes sense it's getting late 🙈

@5zeds

I'm not sure if the OP's six year old is rude or not, but you certainly are, and your 'advice' is woeful. Whatever it is that is making you unhappy will not be improved by trying to make other people unhappy. Fortunately I think the OP has the wit to ignore you.

It isn’t demonising a child who is rude to you, plays rather than do what she asks, to describe those behaviours accurately. It doesn’t mean she isn’t lovely, and loved. Children (well all of us to be honest) repeat behaviour that gets them the outcome they want. You have to make doing what you ask more advantageous than doing what she wants. None of it has to be unkind or harsh.

I’m sure judges do, but I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a parent being proud of their child. They might be being deluded, neither you or I can know, but I think it’s nice when parents are proud of their DC.

Quite

Firmness OP. Don't negotiate, she has all day to waste and you don't which is why she's running rings round you. Be consistent, good behaviour rewarded, bad behaviour not, allow her a hearing but you are judge and jury and you decide when a conversation is over.

Worth getting her assessed but she may just be a QC in the making. Hopefully she'll keep you in your old age.

My DS was like this and is diagnosed with dyspraxia. Possible ADHD traits too. Pre warnings and countdown worked, reward charts definitely but also strict sanctions. I often had to leave parties/ soft play early as he wouldnt follow instructions and would try and negotiate with me/other adults. If he was tuned into something then I had to be really aware of timings.

Before diagnosing her try to cut out all of the negotiation. Just count down the 5 mins and then leave the house. If she hadn't got shoes on so be it just pop them inbred bag for later. Sounds like she's really enjoying the power play!

Good effort, but once MN has decided there's some deep-rooted, pathological unhappiness/anger which has driven you to make some perfectly reasonable observations, it's game over.

Curious that that poster didn't have 'the wit to ignore you' herself.

I have a five year old. I firmly believe she is the most wonderful girl to walk this earth. Can she be lazy? Rude? Manipulative? Yep.

She might just be very bright and not unthinkingly obedient by nature. I see nothing wrong with this, I wouldn't necessarily be looking to diagnose her, but can see how it would make day to day life challenging. You sound like you need a break OP, and to put the focus back on yourself, and off her. Do you get time just for you?

Not everything needs a medical diagnosis, it sounds to me like a simple case of poor behaviour from an intelligent child who has worked out how to exploit a weakness in your parenting.

It sounds to me like she's just learned that by arguing, procrastinating and messing around she gets what she wants, which is to ignore you for a bit longer or altogether. This is a learned behaviour which will require unpicking. My solution would be to simply stop engaging with the nonsense, you tell her to do something and she either does it right there and then that very second or the sanctions come down immediately, harshly and with commitment. You can discuss the reasoning of it afterwards all you like but in the moment she will simply do as she's told immediately or suffer the consequences. By all means give timed warnings of when you want things to happen but no entering into discussion and when the time is up it is up, no mercy, no leeway, every time without fail. She'll soon work out that you mean what you say and stop challenging you unless it's really important, which then lets you know what is really important to her and what isn't. It's probably not the modern fluffy free-range parenting approach but there we are.

I have no experience what so ever in this as I just have a baby DS but wow Your daughter sounds like a genius. Very ahead of her years and a very interesting little character. But yeah sounds like hard work too.
Bless you OP you're doing an amazing job

@5zeds

A six year old pushing boundaries is normal, a six year questioning the world is normal, a six year old trying to assert their will is normal. It certainly has to be managed but it doesn't make a child manipulative, lazy or rude, it makes them a child with a strong sense of self determination.

However, describing a six year old exhibiting these behaviours as 'manipulative, lazy and rude' to a parent asking for advice does make you rude, unhelpful, woefully ignorant about child psychology, and presumably playing out some unhappiness of your own. Happy, as previous, the OP has to wit to realise this and give your idiocy a wide berth.

@MigraineLevel9000 Your daughter sounds amazing!! She sounds like an educated, eloquent adult in a child body! Somewhat discombobulating!

she will do something fabulous with her life IF her nature/ways/thought processes aren't stamped out of her.

she's not your average 6 yo, so you can't parent her like your average 6 yo.

this might sound mad, but bear with!!

can you try realigning your thinking/expectations?

can you try talking to her like you would a partner or friend, more as an equal than a small child?

'this morning we need to go to ABC for XYZ, so we need to leave at X, then allow her to ask/suggest you go to DEF instead and ask why? Then she reminds you what you said about the kids and about your voucher. Discuss which is the best option and do that.

can she tell the time? Can she organise her time if she knows what time your leaving? If not can you ask her to tell you how she needs to be updated/reminded to put her shoes on so you're not all late?

get HER to come up with solutions if the plan doesn't work. Or at least get her but in to yours?

I wish I could talk to you in person because I'm doing an absolute crap job of trying to write what I mean 🤦🏻‍♀️

shes 6, but she's intelligent, logical & eloquent. The things that frustrate you are actually good traits for her to have as an adult, so if you can develop those, not resent them, you'll be doing her a HUGE favour & maybe changing how you relate to her will reduce your frustration.

I know it's not easy, I'm a child of the '70's!! My natural reaction is 'just get her told and there's a bottom asking for a smack! So I'm not naturally all woo!

but don't feel bad for feeling exhausted & like your not enjoying her company right now. You wanted a child, not a partner/sister!! But you've got the makings of an incredible woman, you just have to nurture it instead of dreaming of a more compliant child!

Oh God, I so hear you OP.
Our DD was exactly the same.
Unbelievably bright but so difficult.
She has PDA autism and now has a fabulous career in tech. Knowing about the PDA helped us so much when interacting with her and taught us how to avoid direct demands, reframing requests helped so much.
My advice would be to embrace any diagnosis and advice from the professionals and don't be afraid, you can and will work through this together.

This sounds like very neurodiverse behaviour. PDA (Pathalogical Demand Avoidance) and ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). Possible ASD traits too. Girls present very differently than boys.

I have an almost 15 year old DD recently diagnosed with Autism amongst other things, and what you are describing sounds very similar.

It is exhausting and you do have to parent very differently than you would a neurotypical child.

The Explosive Child by Ross W Greene is a really good read and helpful as a parent of a child with PDA traits.

What you are experiencing is real, and it can be really hard to deal with at times, no matter how much we love our child.