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Ukraine Invasion: Part 28

1000 replies

MagicFox · 24/06/2022 11:38

Thread 28 begins, thanks all for the company and resources

OP posts:
Thread gallery
74
Hillsmakeyoustrong · 17/07/2022 19:44

@ScrollingLeaves I think the story we are hearing isn't the whole story. I'm not convinced that cargo wasn't for the war effort.

DuncinToffee · 17/07/2022 22:23

⚡️NEW: Zelensky has fired his longtime personal friend and head of the Security Service of Ukraine Ivan Bakanov, as I reported he would weeks ago.

Zelensky also fired Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova.

My @politico story on Ze & Bakanov falling out:

twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1548747253241765888?t=pfu_fjWpVDRFBhQ010jMTg&s=19

Sickening trail of betrayal

blueshoes · 17/07/2022 22:32

DuncinToffee · 17/07/2022 22:23

⚡️NEW: Zelensky has fired his longtime personal friend and head of the Security Service of Ukraine Ivan Bakanov, as I reported he would weeks ago.

Zelensky also fired Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova.

My @politico story on Ze & Bakanov falling out:

twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1548747253241765888?t=pfu_fjWpVDRFBhQ010jMTg&s=19

Sickening trail of betrayal

Shocking betrayal. To think that Zelensky has to deal with this in addition to everything else on his plate.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/07/2022 22:35

@Hillsmakeyoustrong · Yesterday 01:01
Hi all. I am sending in a lot of first aid into Ukraine for the south coast via ambulance convoy on Monday 25th July. If anyone wants to give something small towards tourniquets and bandages then PM me.

I just sent some through the link you PMd before but I should have checked if that is still the right link.
Good luck to your convoy for Monday.25th.

blueshoes · 17/07/2022 22:40

Wasn't Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova spearheading the investigation of thousands of Russian war crimes in Ukraine? I hope that effort does not lose momentum with her sacking. Not sure why a Prosecutor General would be responsible for the failings of the security agency and the fall of Kherson to the Russians early on in the war. I would not have thought that comes under her remit.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/07/2022 22:48

@blueshoes · Today 22:32

“DuncinToffee · Today 22:23
⚡️NEW: Zelensky has fired his longtime personal friend and head of the Security Service of Ukraine Ivan Bakanov, as I reported he would weeks ago.”

“Zelensky also fired Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova.”

“My @politico story on Ze & Bakanov falling out:”

“twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1548747253241765888?t=pfu_fjWpVDRFBhQ010jMTg&s=19”

“Sickening trail of betrayal”

Shocking betrayal. To think that Zelensky has to deal with this in addition to everything else on his plate.

I cannot think how Zelensky keeps going. It must be so difficult when Bakanov had been his childhood friend. The article said there had been objections at the time of Bakanov’s appointment. At what a high cost the lesson has been learnt. No one at that time could have realised just how much was going to be at stake by choosing the wrong person.

It mentioned the very high number of former agents, if that is the word, now working for the Russians. Might some be doing so under extreme duress? Or is it pure treachery all round, I wonder?

It does seem as though the Russians just walked into Kherson.l

blueshoes · 18/07/2022 01:10

@ScrollingLeaves It mentioned the very high number of former agents, if that is the word, now working for the Russians. Might some be doing so under extreme duress? Or is it pure treachery all round, I wonder?
It does seem as though the Russians just walked into Kherson.

I agree. The issue of collaboration by Ukrainians with Russia is not black-and-white.

This Guardian article is a little old but explains the dilemma for Zelensky. Which makes the sacking of Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova puzzling as to where she failed. With Mr. Bakanov, I believe he was removed under a military disciplinary code that cites “negligence in performing duties that caused loss of life or other grave consequences.” It looks like incompetence or ineffectiveness rather than outright betrayal.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/04/ukraine-collaborators-treason-russia-war

"A difficult and painful question’: Ukraine ponders how to punish collaborators
6 June 2022
...
Another problem is how to grade different forms of collaboration and make sure punishments are appropriate. “There are people who were looking forward to jump into the other army, there are people who collaborated because they wanted to save their lives, and there are also people who were forced to collaborate at gunpoint,” said Ilko Bozhko, a Ukrainian military official from the east operational command.

Ukrainian prosecutors face a particularly tricky task in the occupied areas of southern Ukraine, which were taken by the Russians at the start of the war. There, Russian officials are busy attempting to impose Russian rule over everyday life, such as by moving Ukrainian schools to the Russian curriculum.

If Ukraine regains control of these territories, there could be thousands of people who have committed acts that fall under the technical definition of collaboration, such as teachers who continued to work under the new curriculum. But many feel prosecutors should be lenient when it comes to such cases.

“This is a very difficult and painful question,” said Sergii Gorbachov, the education ombudsman of Ukraine. “It’s very difficult to decide where the line is. I don’t think you can demand heroism from unarmed civilian people. The most important thing is not to voluntarily collaborate. When we get the occupiers off all our land, I expect big problems over how we decide on this question.”

Ijsbear · 18/07/2022 07:30

Key Takeaways

Russian forces continued a measured return from the operational pause and did not make any confirmed territorial gains on July 17.

Russian forces continued limited ground assaults around Siversk, Bakhmut, and Donetsk City and otherwise fired at civilian and military infrastructure throughout the Donbas.

Russian forces focused on defensive operations north of Kharkiv City and along the Southern Axis.

The Kremlin may be setting long-term conditions for force generation efforts in anticipation of protracted hostilities in Ukraine.

Russian occupation authorities are likely using the threat of partisan activities to justify harsher societal controls in occupied areas.

+++

📌 In Irpin, 27% of the population were left without housing

🔎 The Pentagon assessed the impact of HIMARS on the course of the war in Ukraine
“Ukrainians hit targets such as ammunition depots, supplies, other logistics centers, command, and control centers. And all this directly affects the possibility of conducting operations at the forefront on the course of the war,” said a Pentagon spokesman.

⚡️ Canadian MPs ask Government to explain Nord Stream Turbine relocation
They note that they are concerned about the precedent for lifting sanctions in a situation where Russia is using gas as a weapon, and call it a “slap in the face for Ukrainians” at a time of difficult trials.

📣 Ukraine may push back Russian troops to pre-war positions until 2023, which will nullify Russia's territorial gains, — former US Army Europe Commander General Ben Hodges. According to the general, the key to Ukraine's success will be the elimination of Russia's "only advantage" — Putin's artillery and missile arsenal.

🔚 The German fund that financed Nord Stream 2 is pulling out of the project, Reuters reports
According to the head of the fund, the organization wants to break all ties with Nord Stream 2 by paying 12 million euros of its obligations.

📣 Ukraine can count on NATO’s support "as long as it takes" because a strong, independent Ukraine is necessary for the security of the Euro-Atlantic region and global stability — Secretary General of NATO Jens Stoltenberg

+++

⚡️ BBC: Russian proxies in Donetsk Oblast capture another British citizen, John Harding, held captive by Russian proxies.

⚡️ Official: Russia moves ‘significant number’ of ships from Crimea to Russia.
Serhii Bratchuk, a spokesman for Odesa Oblast’s military administration, reportedly citing Ukraine’s Armed Forces, said Russia has moved ships from Sevastopol in Crimea to Novorossiysk, Russia.

⚡️ Deputy PM: New wave of internally displaced people expected in fall.
Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said in a televised interview on July 17 that over 500,000 people are anticipated to move westwards before winter.

⚡️ Mayor: Russian forces prepare so-called ‘referendum’ in Melitopol for early Sept.

+++

Todays UK int update concentrates on Wagner. They make the rather dry comment that Wagner have lowered their recruiting standards .... !

There have been generally accepted reports that Ukraine lost a plane, a chopper and a pile of US missiles yesterday :(

Ukraine Invasion: Part 28
Ukraine Invasion: Part 28
MagicFox · 18/07/2022 07:43

I thought Stoltenberg was spot on: "“The price we pay is measured in currency. The price they pay is measured in lives lost every day. So we should stop complaining and step up and provide support”.

OP posts:
Hillsmakeyoustrong · 18/07/2022 08:03

@ScrollingLeaves I have received it. Thankyou very much 🙏.

MagicFox · 18/07/2022 08:08

@leonidvolkov

"Putin's next (and final) battle.
(This thread went viral in Russian so I decided to publish an English version as well)

A long thread about what, in my opinion, is Putin's strategy right now, and the last gamble he is making to break Ukraine's resistance.

1/26"

twitter.com/leonidvolkov/status/1548697349676998656?s=21&t=9xChyGoMjqze2MuwfVs-0Q

OP posts:
MagicFox · 18/07/2022 08:09

@alexgabuv

"Is Russia becoming a giant Iran of Eurasia? A few thoughts from my conversation with @gideonrachman about 🇷🇺 future and its relationship with China for The Rachman Review podcast @FT"

twitter.com/alexgabuev/status/1548892776926007296?s=21&t=9xChyGoMjqze2MuwfVs-0Q

OP posts:
MagicFox · 18/07/2022 08:11

@ehunterchristie

"1-25
Ukraine's struggle is a Just War against revanchist aggression on the part of Europe's last empire. It is incumbent upon people of all persuasions, from both the right and the left, to rise to the aid of the Ukrainian people in their fight for national survival."

twitter.com/ehunterchristie/status/1548658180229664771?s=21&t=9xChyGoMjqze2MuwfVs-0Q

OP posts:
MagicFox · 18/07/2022 08:11

This morning's Twitter haul of good threads below!

OP posts:
MagicFox · 18/07/2022 08:12

and a new thread while I'm at it:

Ukraine Invasion: Part 29 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4592148-ukraine-invasion-part-29

OP posts:
Hillsmakeyoustrong · 18/07/2022 08:12

I was always puzzled by the fall of Kherson and I think I've said so on these threads. It just felt so...effortless for the Russians. I don't think 'collaborating' whilst being held at gunpoint can be considered criminal, surely they are hostages at this point. Same as at the nuclear plant. Heroics, especially in the face of such a barbaric army, are going to be a rarity.

I had a telegram conversation with a volunteer in Kharkiv and they said there were people everywhere with a Ukrainian passport but not a Ukrainian heart. I get the feeling that treachery and corruption is endemic.

Ijsbear · 18/07/2022 08:36

Ukraine has been known as a very corrupt country - which is not to say tht there is ANY justification for invading it!!

But our guests have given me serious warnings about being very careful who I send money to.

thanks for the new thread @MagicFox

Ijsbear · 18/07/2022 08:40

Really good threads those @MagicFox Thanks

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2022 09:28

@blueshoes · Today 01:10
@ScrollingLeaves It mentioned the very high number of former agents, if that is the word, now working for the Russians. Might some be doing so under extreme duress? Or is it pure treachery all round, I wonder?
It does seem as though the Russians just walked into Kherson.

I agree. The issue of collaboration by Ukrainians with Russia is not black-and-white.

This Guardian article is a little old but explains the dilemma for Zelensky. Which makes the sacking of Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova puzzling as to where she failed. With Mr. Bakanov, I believe he was removed under a military disciplinary code that cites “negligence in performing duties that caused loss of life or other grave consequences.” It looks like incompetence or ineffectiveness rather than outright betrayal.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/04/ukraine-collaborators-treason-russia-war

"A difficult and painful question’: Ukraine ponders how to punish collaborators
6 June 2022

...
Another problem is how to grade different forms of collaboration and make sure punishments are appropriate. “There are people who were looking forward to jump into the other army, there are people who collaborated because they wanted to save their lives, and there are also people who were forced to collaborate at gunpoint,” said Ilko Bozhko, a Ukrainian military official from the east operational command.

Ukrainian prosecutors face a particularly tricky task in the occupied areas of southern Ukraine, which were taken by the Russians at the start of the war. There, Russian officials are busy attempting to impose Russian rule over everyday life, such as by moving Ukrainian schools to the Russian curriculum.

If Ukraine regains control of these territories, there could be thousands of people who have committed acts that fall under the technical definition of collaboration, such as teachers who continued to work under the new curriculum. But many feel prosecutors should be lenient when it comes to such cases.

“This is a very difficult and painful question,” said Sergii Gorbachov, the education ombudsman of Ukraine. “It’s very difficult to decide where the line is. I don’t think you can demand heroism from unarmed civilian people. The most important thing is not to voluntarily collaborate. When we get the occupiers off all our land, I expect big problems over how we decide on this question.”

Thank you for that article, blueshoes. It does describe how difficult it is to enthusiastic collaborators from those who don’t know what else to do. It is worrying to think the prosecutors themselves can be corrupt.

I remember reading that in one city, possibly it was Kherson, the invading Russians knew exactly where to find the key hubs for the infrastructure of the city, yet only members of the city council had known where they were. In this case the Mayor himself had tried to defend the city then realised they had been undermined by their own.

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2022 09:56

@MagicFox · Today 08:08

"Putin's next (and final) battle.

(This thread went viral in Russian so I decided to publish an English version as well)

A long thread about what, in my opinion, is Putin's strategy right now, and the last gamble he is making to break Ukraine's resistance.

1/26"

twitter.com/leonidvolkov/status/1548697349676998656?s=21&t=9xChyGoMjqze2MuwfVs-0Q

Thank you a MagicFox. I haven’t read the others yet, but this one seems very likely to be spot on.

A truce would mean drawing a demarcation line on the map, which would determine political reality for years to come — there's nothing more permanent than the temporary. And once this truce is established, the "bad peace is better than good war" party will win in Europe.

6/26

there’s nothing more permanent than the temporary - this is likely to be true.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong
Thank you for letting me know; thank you for what you are doing.

From your post 08:12
I had a telegram conversation with a volunteer in Kharkiv and they said there were people everywhere with a Ukrainian passport but not a Ukrainian heart. I get the feeling that treachery and corruption is endemic.

This aspect must add to the stress and uncertainty of everyday life within the horror of this invasion.

blueshoes · 18/07/2022 11:29

MagicFox · 18/07/2022 07:43

I thought Stoltenberg was spot on: "“The price we pay is measured in currency. The price they pay is measured in lives lost every day. So we should stop complaining and step up and provide support”.

So right.

The faster we step up the fewer lives lost overall.

I just realised that Jens Stoltenberg’s mandate as NATO Secretary General was due to expire in September this year and he had already been given the cushy role of Norway's central bank governor. But given the Russian invasion of Ukraine, NATO nation leaders asked him to serve another year and he resigned from the governor role to steer NATO for an additional year until the end of September 2023.

What a hero. Whatever the criticisms of NATO, it is no longer a Cold War relic and we need a committed person like him at the helm.

Ijsbear · 18/07/2022 16:01

⚡️ Ukraine has completed the ratification of the Istanbul Convention, depositing the relevant documents with the Council of Europe
The document will enter into force on November 1, 2022.

📌 The Russian invaders deported 2 million residents of the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine to the Russian Federation, including several hundred thousand children.|

⚡️Bloomberg: Putin says sanctions cause ‘colossal’ problems in Russian tech industry.
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin told officials during a video conference on strategic development goals that Russia is facing "colossal problems" in the high-tech sector due to international sanctions, but that Russia will not allow its economy to fall back decades and will look for solutions by relying on domestic resources, Bloomberg reports.

⚡️Media: Putin to visit Iran on July 19.

⚡️Reuters: Gazprom declares force majeure on some gas supplies to Europe.

⚡️Russia fines Google $382 million for not removing content banned in Russia.
A Moscow court imposed a fine of 21.77 billion rubles ($382 million) on Google for repeated failure to remove “information prohibited in Russia” from YouTube.

Ijsbear · 18/07/2022 16:05

fucking hell

⚡️Swiss Info: Switzerland refused NATO's request to help wounded Ukrainians as the country wants to maintain its neutral status.

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2022 16:30

@Ijsbear · Today 16:05
fucking hell

⚡️Swiss Info: Switzerland refused NATO's request to help wounded Ukrainians as the country wants to maintain its neutral status.

Do you know if that was that to take them into Swiss hospitals, Ijsbear? Are Ukrainian wounded being taken to Germany, I wonder?

Ijsbear · 18/07/2022 17:39

All over I think. Poland, Estonia, etc.

But not Switzerland. Is is wrong to hope that one day they get invaded and no one lifts a finger?

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