Boris has been fined - Tory voters, should he go?

[NewYorker80]

Both Johnson and Sunak have received fines for the lockdown parties. No further details as yet.

Do any Conservative voters here think Boris should resign?

Ukraine was first formed after the Russian revolution.
The territory of modern Ukraine has been inhabited since 32,000 BC. During the Middle Ages, the area was a key centre of East Slavic culture under Kievan Rus', which was ultimately destroyed by the Mongol invasion in the 13th century. Over the next 600 years, the area was contested, divided, and ruled by external powers, including the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austrian Empire, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and the Tsardom of Russia. The Cossack Hetmanate emerged in Central Ukraine in the 17th century but was partitioned between Russia and Poland, and ultimately completely absorbed by the Russian Empire. In the aftermath of the Russian Revolution a Ukrainian national movement re-emerged, and the Ukrainian People's Republic was formed in 1917. This short-lived state was forcibly reconstituted into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which became a founding member of the Soviet Union (USSR) in 1922. From 1932 to 1933 the Holodomor killed millions of Ukrainians. In 1939, Western Ukraine was annexed from Poland by the USSR. Ukraine was the most populous and industrialised republic after the Russian Soviet Republic. With the dissolution of the Soviet Union Ukraine regained its independence in 1991.

...not as country it wasn't, anymore than the Crimea was.

every region has an origin but as you had to cut n paste all that, i'll assume you had no idea where Ukraine is than BJ.

I didn't have too.

@Alexandra2001

...not as country it wasn't, anymore than the Crimea was.

every region has an origin but as you had to cut n paste all that, i'll assume you had no idea where Ukraine is than BJ.

I didn't have too.

But Dh does. Bj is an intelligent man whether you like it or not

Fascinating how some posts are considered apparently so po-faced as to be derisory and others, prurient but obviously taking the piss, are deemed nasty.

Meanwhile PM breaking emergency public health legislation, misleading Parliament and failing to correct the record is considered a minor misdemeanour of little importance.

Odd standards.

No

derxa
Thats about as bad as my nastiness gets. I didn't tell millions of people to not gather with friends and relatives in case they killed them then completely ignore those rules, do what I wanted/ continue as if nothing was wrong, lie to parliament, lie to those people, use the poor people in a war zone as yet another excuse to avoid doing the right thing.
I think I'd take my nastiness over his in a heartbeat.

@derxa Where did i say BJ wasn't intelligent? yes thats right, i didn't!

For a man so bereft of a moral compass to get as far as he has in politics, shows he has a keen intelligence and low animal cunning but that doesn't make him any good at geography.

We all know VDL (EU) went to Ukraine 2 days early and i said to my partner at the time "BJ will be there tomo" and sure enough he was.... just a day later.

The only think missing was a jacket with "Commando" written on it and hard hat... maybe next time eh?

@littledrummergirl

derxa Thats about as bad as my nastiness gets. I didn't tell millions of people to not gather with friends and relatives in case they killed them then completely ignore those rules, do what I wanted/ continue as if nothing was wrong, lie to parliament, lie to those people, use the poor people in a war zone as yet another excuse to avoid doing the right thing. I think I'd take my nastiness over his in a heartbeat.

But you have made many relevant points here. Why taint your point of view with cheap insults?

New thread here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4529283-Boris-has-been-fined-Part-2

Because this is going to go on for a while

Because good points get overlooked. People remember the cheap shots, just like the soundbites.

Marking place. Surprised Rishi hasn’t gone he’s no chance of making PM now.

Maybe Johnson would have known where Ukraine was, but other than a vague generalisation that it was somewhere E Europe, I doubt if he really did. I did myself know, having studied European history in the 17th and 18th Centuries, obviously a long time ago now, but remembered enough to know that it has a complex history.

Generally speaking, his Government seems geographically challenged. Raab for example, not knowing the importance of the Dover - Calais crossing and worse, not even knowing that it was knowledge that someone in year 5 or 6 of junior school could be expected to know.

@Peregrina

Maybe Johnson would have known where Ukraine was, but other than a vague generalisation that it was somewhere E Europe, I doubt if he really did. I did myself know, having studied European history in the 17th and 18th Centuries, obviously a long time ago now, but remembered enough to know that it has a complex history.

Generally speaking, his Government seems geographically challenged. Raab for example, not knowing the importance of the Dover - Calais crossing and worse, not even knowing that it was knowledge that someone in year 5 or 6 of junior school could be expected to know.

Raab is an ignoramus Boris not so much

@derxa

Pre invasion, certainly pre Russian troop build up, i doubt he or anyone else in Govt had a clue where Ukraine was. Utter nonsense. He's a history buff.

I heard Mary Beard being interviewed on radio 4. She was laughing about some of the stuff he had been telling kids on one of his visits to schools. Must have been about two years ago, just before pandemic maybe. Anyway she didn't seem to think he was much of a history buff.

Spoke with a mum today whose daughter bought an unused prom dress from a friend. Unused because prom parties for 16 year old were banned. Just think about that. Those louts in Downing street behaving like lockdown wasn't a thing, whilst 16 year olds were denied their end of school party celebration.

We have one of those in dd room as well. I'm still crosser that dh uncle wasn't able to have a funeral but Downing Street partied so all is well in the world!

Boris received a low 2:1 in classics and ancient literature from Oxford, and questions were raised about his competence, according to wiki.

In 1986, Johnson ran successfully for president, but his term was not particularly distinguished or memorable and questions were raised regarding his competence and seriousness. Finally, Johnson was awarded an upper second-class degree, and was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first.

@ENoeuf

Marking place. Surprised Rishi hasn’t gone he’s no chance of making PM now.

I still think Sunak will be PM. Maybe not next time, but he's only 41. People seem to have very short memories where these things are concerned.

I don't think he will, not for one minute. People do have long memories in some instances and his huge wealth is just beyond the most ordinary person's comprehension and they don't like it. Add tax dodging on this massive wealth into the mix and he's scuppered.

I also think he wouldn't want it, he's protective of his family and he's had a taste of the media turning on him.

Because he didn't realise 10mins in an office with colleagues he'd been working with constituted attending a party or a rule break, nor would I.

How about 10 minutes in an office eating cake and drinking lager, with his wife and his interior designer? Was he incapable of thinking about the purpose of the rules, i.e. to stop infection? Suppose, say, the designer had been incubating covid - did he seriously think that the virus operated a 10 minute rule before it spread?

Has he made any comment in his fine? Or will he? Any questions time?

If BJ and Carrie had a party in his flat with friends then yes that broke the rules and is serious

Can you quote the provision in the law that said that a social gathering at work (including non-employees) didn't break the law, @JaniieJones?

I work in a school SLT and at roughly the same time we had exactly the same decision to make. Everyone in school had had an incredibly tough time and we (SLT) felt we needed/deserved a bit of an end of term celebration/wind down . We felt it could be "justified" as a work event, it was a team/wellbeing thing and there was no additional covid risk as we'd all been working together all day anyway.

However, on reflection we agreed that whilst we might be able to make it fit the rules, it wasn't really in the spirit of them and that it would look awful to staff and parents. So we didn't do it. These "leaders" were apparently either too stupid to realise that or didn't care.

New thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4529283-Boris-has-been-fined-Part-2