Ukraine-invasion-part-15

[Ijsbear]

Next part.

Propaganda

The Russian Ministry of Defence press section has recently been releasing videos showing Russian forces in Ukraine, complete with Z branding and music...here's today's
twitter.com/bbcwillvernon/status/1506251832854732805?s=21

@Ijsbear

Every time a shill says Azov, let's say Wagner!

Wagner and Azov are two different issues. If there is a negotiated ceasefire Wagner would not be in Ukraine. Azov is a different issue which I believe needs international commitment as part of any ceasefire negotiation.

Calling someone a shill is against MNHQ guidelines, it is closing down discussion, it is likely to come from someone with an agenda of their own and so is disingenuous. If you are being genuine, look at my post above and watch all the videos - 10 mins each - and the other information, and come back and raise valid points which I can then respond to.

Have you read about the Biden Hunter laptop? You may find that there are some valid concerns being raised which were alleged to be "proRussian" or "misinformation" or "a smokescreen" which are in fact none of those. They are just valid concerns. Being able to raise concerns is one of the fundamentals of democracy.

Russia has in the last couple of days warned Ukraine about an attack by Azov planned to take place in Lviv

How touching that Russia cares about tbe welfare of people in Ukraine. Do you have a source for this?

The not tbe. Curse my clumsy fingers.

Hunter Biden's laptop, right you are.......

[quote DuncinToffee]Propaganda

The Russian Ministry of Defence press section has recently been releasing videos showing Russian forces in Ukraine, complete with Z branding and music...here's today's
twitter.com/bbcwillvernon/status/1506251832854732805?s=21[/quote]
I wonder what the lyrics say?

I wonder what the lyrics say?

Me too

I'm not sure it is such a huge issue in the west, though they do sound pretty awful. (Wagner sounds worse).

But people with an agenda have pushed it as part of an agenda to say We Have The Right To Cleanse Ukraine.

It's notable that when they do talk about it, they ignore that Wagner is linked to GRU and has committed infinitely more atrocities in quite a few hotspots of the world.

Conspiracy theory: Elon Musk has installed his underground whizzy tunnel thingy in Ukraine (I think it's a bit like Jamie and His Magic Torch, but I'm not really a science-y person) and that's how the mighty Azovs are planning to travel across a vast, war-torn country for this attack in two days. And if something bad does happen in Lviv in two days, it will most definitely be down to the super-whizzy Azovs and not, I repeat not, down to the Russians. Honest.

Esma

He probably dug a rabbit hole

But her emails.

'Legitimate concerns'

I glaze over at anyone on a British website who mentions Hunter Biden tbh. I think we have more than enough issues which may be in a similar vein that should be far higher on our agenda and references of Hunter Biden are suggestive of something else.

The Azov are the bad ones cos they are nazis? Well yes, Nazis are bad. However, I'm inclined to think Z-Nazis invading a sovereign country as being our priorty and leaving Zelensky to deal with domestic extremism. Why? Because scale of problem at hand. Its not as if our own military hasn't got a significant dodgy right wing lean going on at times. Glasshouses. However I do tend to think that are armed forces are generally pretty disciplined given their nature and usual socio-economic background. Cos I'm a realist not a fuckwit.

Also. Interesting ratio on posts to Azov mentions.

Here's a video of them 'liberating' a captured village near Kyiv, where they state they have to go from house to house to 'cleanse' nationalists as they are hiding in every house in the village.

In my head I see the opening of Inglorious Basterds

@DuncinToffee

I wonder what the lyrics say?

Me too

It is a cover of an old song ("Cuckoo") by Victor Tsoi, bizarrely the original is quite anti-militaristic. Think along the lines of "knocking on heaven's door".

@forinborin you say Azov are speaking Russian - but the videos I linked show attacks on Russians and anti Russian feeling quite clearly. So are you sure about what you are saying? These are videos done by BBC and TIME.

Also the video you say you can turn on translation - in fact you can't in the video linked. And how valid is the source?

Wasn't cuckoo one of the songs at the putin wrestlemania rally?

@RedToothBrush that’s a scary thought. My concern is that as the article states Russia will use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine and NATO will respond. Then we don’t know how far Putin would then push things or whether it would de-escalate because it scares him off. I’m worried it’ll cause a domino effect and more nuclear weapons are used because the Pandora’s box has been opened so to speak.
Frightening.

I guess we’ll have to see what their response will be when they discuss it at the summit soon.

5:11

@DuncinToffee

Hunter Biden's laptop, right you are.......

Seriously that has turned out to be a right fishy business. Media suppression. It's not a good look whatever where they spin it.

I know is the Daily Mail (although Ian Hislop did say they do sometimes produce excellent investigative journalism !! yes he did!) but this story just bloody depressed me www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10475335/Former-diplomat-Kiev-warned-State-Department-Hunter-Bidens-business-dealing-Ukraine.html

Not keeping up with this all but thanks to those who replied to my question earlier about the military pact thing

@RedToothBrush

But her emails.

'Legitimate concerns'

I glaze over at anyone on a British website who mentions Hunter Biden tbh. I think we have more than enough issues which may be in a similar vein that should be far higher on our agenda and references of Hunter Biden are suggestive of something else.

The Azov are the bad ones cos they are nazis? Well yes, Nazis are bad. However, I'm inclined to think Z-Nazis invading a sovereign country as being our priorty and leaving Zelensky to deal with domestic extremism. Why? Because scale of problem at hand. Its not as if our own military hasn't got a significant dodgy right wing lean going on at times. Glasshouses. However I do tend to think that are armed forces are generally pretty disciplined given their nature and usual socio-economic background. Cos I'm a realist not a fuckwit.

Also. Interesting ratio on posts to Azov mentions.

Fundamentals of democracy. Not censoring people. Not lying.

All the things you criticise in relation to Russia.

The links to Ukraine evidenced in the laptop.

[quote sageintegrite]@forinborin you say Azov are speaking Russian - but the videos I linked show attacks on Russians and anti Russian feeling quite clearly. So are you sure about what you are saying? These are videos done by BBC and TIME.

Also the video you say you can turn on translation - in fact you can't in the video linked. And how valid is the source?[/quote]
You can turn auto translate on in that video.

@Ijsbear

I'm not sure it is such a huge issue in the west, though they do sound pretty awful. (Wagner sounds worse).

But people with an agenda have pushed it as part of an agenda to say We Have The Right To Cleanse Ukraine.

It's notable that when they do talk about it, they ignore that Wagner is linked to GRU and has committed infinitely more atrocities in quite a few hotspots of the world.

It isn't to do with justifying Russia going in to Ukraine.

It is about the fact that the group has become massive, and has been funded with hundreds of millions.

Russia's is saying that they were targeting Russians, and branding separatist "terrorists" etc. What I am saying is that they are out of control and as part of the ceasefire negotiation, the US and other members of the international community should be agreeing how to deal with it. There is risk to the West. And we should be aiming for the UN to go in.

We can't leave this to Zelensky, I really would have thought that would be obvious to everyone by now. Zelensky has also incidently made Ukraine an autocracy. And won't make a decision about ceasefire without a referendum - how is that going to be administered in a war zone where refugees are scattered far and wide?

In WWII we had Lord Haw Haw.

He was done for treason because he was a threat to democracy.

I recognise when the idea of freedom of speech is merely a justification for dog whistles. And i recognise that censorship on the grounds of national security is also a fundamental part of protecting democracy under certain circumstances, particularly during war time.

HTH.

[quote forinborin]The video of them singing the national anthem says they started singing it as 'the police' approached. Is that an error that should have read 'Russian troops' or are the police now doing Russia's bidding?
Russia has brought not only regular military forces, but also special police units (SOBR, similar to SWAT) with them.
Here's a video of them 'liberating' a captured village near Kyiv, where they state they have to go from house to house to 'cleanse' nationalists as they are hiding in every house in the village. Previously known as the village population. This is police, not armed forces, official footage.

[/quote] A couple of posters have said there is autotranslate - how do you turn that on? The only subtitles showing are Russian.

Thanks

@RedToothBrush

What does 5:11 mean?

He was done for treason because he was a threat to democracy.

"Treason" has f-all to do with "threat to democracy". Ultimately it's a threat to the ruling classes.

Arguably the concept of "treason" stems from the idea that if you are being protected by an state - however so organised - at the very minimum you owe it some allegiance. However that starts straying into the notion of a social contract which is probably best avoided, because the UK certainly doesn't honour that. Or even try.