Ukraine invasion discussion thread part 11

[ScatteredMama82]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4499310-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-10?pg=40

[quote Tuba437]@elephantmarchingin they have pooh poohed the polish jets due to expected escalation. A no fly zone would be more escalators than that so really can't see the no fly zone going ahead.[/quote]
I guess however a maternity hospital can be seen as 'next level' and Zelenskyy has already come out to say that NATO must close the sky

pmk with trepidation

@RedToothBrush

Natasha Clark *@natashac* Business Sec told Britain facing "a crisis in energy bigger than the shock of the 1970s"

Says energy plan coming "in the next few days"

Sounds fun.

Looks like we are all going back in time 40 years.

Yeah. I was already steeling myself for the post-covid downturn and the energy price rises. I have now adopted a full brace position. The next 10 years are going to be tough.

Nick Cohen. Always sane.

www.persuasion.community/p/putins-unholy-alliance?s=r
Putin's Unholy Alliance
Those on the extremes of Western politics are enchanted by the Russian president's worldview.

On both sides, it is a measure of the savagery of the Russian assault that it has in recent days all but silenced the liars and insinuators, the whatabouters and the hired propagandists. But I would not count on them staying silent for long. The West’s rediscovery of its resolve will lead to economic pain as sanctions send fuel and food prices rising. As the pain grows, his fellow travelers will be back arguing that we should appease Putin rather than pay the cost of standing up to him.

“On an occasion of this kind it becomes more than a moral duty to speak one’s mind,” says Oscar Wilde in The Importance of Being Earnest. “It becomes a pleasure.” When the time comes, taking on the enormous hypocrisies of nationalists who support the destruction of nations, and anti-imperialists who cannot make a stand against the revival of the Tsarist empire, will be exactly that.

And as if by magic....

Nigel Farage @nigelfarage
I am launching a new campaign to kill of Boris Johnson’s ruinous green agenda.

We demand a referendum on Net Zero.

@elephantmarchingin he’s been asking for a no fly zone since this began, it’s not going to happen unfortunately. Instead Ben Wallace said they’re sending some sort of missiles to shoot at aircraft when they’re in the sky. I might be wrong but that’s how I read it.

Children's hospital destroyed by air strikes.

Thanks for the new thread.

@RedToothBrush

And as if by magic....

Nigel Farage @nigelfarage
I am launching a new campaign to kill of Boris Johnson’s ruinous green agenda.

We demand a referendum on Net Zero.

Last I read of that (it's not "news" by the way) he was struggling to find places to charge people to listen to him speak at.

I guess they remember him saying he'd prefer Putin in charge of the UK.

@RedToothBrush

Natasha Clark *@natashac* Business Sec told Britain facing "a crisis in energy bigger than the shock of the 1970s"

Says energy plan coming "in the next few days"

Sounds fun.

Looks like we are all going back in time 40 years.

Oh, will we have reduced speed limits, that would be fun.

Less complaining about cyclists though that way which would be a shame.

@RedToothBrush

And as if by magic....

Nigel Farage @nigelfarage
I am launching a new campaign to kill of Boris Johnson’s ruinous green agenda.

We demand a referendum on Net Zero.

Which village is he from? Can't he go back there and quietly retire as their resident idiot?

@RedToothBrush

Christo Grozev *@christogrozev* Last night, on *@pevchikh and @Kira*_Yarmysh's talk show I pledged my reputation insisting that Putin lies when he says Russia did not send conscripted soldiers to fight in Ukraine. It appears Putin now acknowledged he was "misled". Maybe we should inform him of other things too?

Looks like the all powerful Head of State was utterly unaware of his subordinates abhorrent decision to send conscripts to Ukraine, despite his express ordered yeah right

Now the All Power has to find a suitable scapegoat punish these offenders.

Why do you think it isn't believable that the head of a government doesn't know what the government is doing?

Throughout January there were posters telling us that it was quite impossible to believe that Boris was responsible for what happened within his home and office, so how can we expect Putin to be responsible for what is happening 100s of miles away?

@RedToothBrush

Jonathan Reilly *@thejonnyreilly* NEW: Western officals have "serious concerns" Russia could use "non convential" e.g chemical weapons in Ukraine.

They warn that Russia is "tightening the noose" on Kyiv and warns it will be "utterly horrific" when forces do move on the capital.

I've seen pictures today of people hiding in the Kyiv underground saying they think they are safe.

I'm not convinced.

Russian military tactics involve bombing hospitals to maximise horror, destruction and fear.

and remember when they (russian authorities) used a narcotic gas to end a terririst hostage situation in a theater?

There is a lot of grumbling on the internet about green policies at the moment - concerning energy from people who now want to frack their hell out of the land under our feet, and in agriculture, muttering about rewilding and the like instead of just maximising yields.

They don’t seem to get that sustainability is the only long term game in town. No sustainability, no life tomorrow. Only greed and lack of planning today counts. We need control of population - and close links back into our major food supplier, the EU!

In light of today's atrocities this tweet from yesterday seems even more pertinent

Ali Rogin
@AliRogin
.@joshrogin
talked to the leader of Syria's Civil Defense (White Helmets), who hadchilling advice for Ukrainians: "Do not give GPS locations of medical facilities to the U.N., which may claim it needs the information to keep them safe. The Russians will use that information"

That does seem very sadly pertinent. Horrific.

Joanna Szostek @joanna_szostek
I'm regularly asked what Russian media are reporting about Ukraine, usually by people who don't speak Russian.
And I struggle to convey the scale of lies and sheer depravity of Russian state media content.
Words like "disinfo" aren't enough.
Here's a🧵trying to illustrate.

There is an article on the website of Russian state news agency RIA Novosti. It is one of Russia's top news websites. Hundreds of thousands of people have already read the article. It is titled "Kiev has experienced an exodus" (Киев пережил исход). Here are some highlights.

It says: Ukrainian "patriotic bloggers and other so-called leaders of public opinion" "created moral hell" by their presence in Kyiv and now they will do the same in Moldova, Poland and Zakarpattia to which they have fled.

It says: Municipal authorities in Kyiv now "can't organize the most basic things" and the "main problem" is their "inability to organize normal provisions of medicines" even though "Kyiv isn't even blocked, roads to the south and south-west are open".

It says: "Most people still in the city are still rather optimistic about the military action thanks to a powerful flood of information", although they "don't believe in victory so hysterically any more".

It says ""It is completely obvious that the Ukrainian leadership is not particularly interested in saving civilian lives".

It says: "If the de-Nazification operation is not completed, the scale of human skulls in the Third Reich will look like nothing against what they will come up with in the New Ukraine", with risk of this spreading to Russia.

This is just one awful, awful article on one major Russian "news" website. But there are dozens and dozens of websites and TV channels saying the same thing. You see, it's not just "disinformation". It's not even just the Russian-language equivalent of RT or Sputnik.

It isn't even the absense of truth which is most nauseating (although that's nauseating enough). It's the total absense of humanity, the callousness towards people who are Russians' neigbours & relatives.
No hell can be hot enough for those who work now for Russia's state media.

Checking in

That is hypocrisy in the extreme- ‘not interested in saving civilian lives’ from the invader bombing hospitals.

The panel on tonight's QT look like they might actually be worth listening to.

@RedToothBrush

Natasha Clark *@natashac* Business Sec told Britain facing "a crisis in energy bigger than the shock of the 1970s"

Says energy plan coming "in the next few days"

Sounds fun.

Looks like we are all going back in time 40 years.

Anyone else feel like they’ve lived through a short ‘golden period’ of the last 20 years or so and everything’s going back to shit again?

bluetongue totally.

and remember when they (russian authorities) used a narcotic gas to end a terririst hostage situation in a theater?

My cousin was supposed to go that night. She didn't cos had to bail due to other commitments that night.

So yeah, I don't think I'll forget that one quickly.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

The panel on tonight's QT look like they might actually be worth listening to.

Well it will be interesting hearing both Zahawi and Lammy explain to the Ukrainian embassador's face why both parties think visas cannot be similar / not needed, and it was so difficult for his wife to get one. Or why they think the staff at the British Embassy in Kyiv should not get one (especially since theyve no lost their jobs due to the embassy leaving).

So quite apart from not really wanting to listen to more grade A bullshit on visas, I don't think I can listen the inevitable plant in audience who is well versed in whatabouttery and nonsense peddling of 'but NATO made me bomb hospitals' Outin apologist gibberish.

Might give it a miss, ta.

Britain is going to supply anti-air missiles to Ukraine (just announced). Is this putting the UK even more in harm's way?