Ukraine invasion discussion thread part 11

[ScatteredMama82]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4499310-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-10?pg=40

Is anyone following John Sweeney on Twitter. Latest vid of him walking around Kyiv tonight with the air raid sirens going off.

Is it just me or is Biden going out and really reiterating that Nato will not be getting involved in the war just now a sort of nod to Zelenskey to start negotiating.

@Tuba437
Is it just me or is Biden going out and really reiterating that Nato will not be getting involved in the war just now a sort of nod to Zelenskey to start negotiating

What would your idea of Zelensky negotiating be ?

I have been following these threads as I find them a measured and helpful source for updates on what's going on with the war in Ukraine .

Do other people find that no-one in real life is talking about this? With Covid, everyone was constantly talking about their views on masks, restrictions and perceived dangers etc. I have been on the school run, at work and out for dinner a couple of times with mum friends and it is not being talked about.

Do other people find that no-one in real life is talking about this?

I went into the office 2 days this week. No one is talking about this. It is in my thoughts all day. I want so badly for this nightmare to end for Ukraine.

[quote Wrongkindofovercoat]@Tuba437
Is it just me or is Biden going out and really reiterating that Nato will not be getting involved in the war just now a sort of nod to Zelenskey to start negotiating

What would your idea of Zelensky negotiating be ?[/quote]
I honestly don't know. Just didn't really get all the talk about possible chemical weapons then followed by basically saying but we definitely will not be getting involved.

I have the opposite @DriedBeanKibble everyone seems to be talking about it and they’ve all been quite frightened.

@DriedBeanKibble

I have been following these threads as I find them a measured and helpful source for updates on what's going on with the war in Ukraine .

Do other people find that no-one in real life is talking about this? With Covid, everyone was constantly talking about their views on masks, restrictions and perceived dangers etc. I have been on the school run, at work and out for dinner a couple of times with mum friends and it is not being talked about.

I agree.

I think it's a fear thing for many and a desire to avoid a topic that makes them uncomfortable. I've chatted to a few friends about it but the overall themes have been the same - don't want to talk about it, scared for their children, worrying what kind of world we live in. It's a shame as I think it can be helpful to process those feelings by chatting but I'm not going to force the conversation on anyone if avoiding it is their way of coping.

Yes I’ve noticed since the beginning that in Real life (so to speak) absolutely no one is talking about it - my guess it’s because it’s so horrible and scary.

I actually commented as such to a friend who lives overseas (outside of Europe).

@stillherenow

Is anyone following John Sweeney on Twitter. Latest vid of him walking around Kyiv tonight with the air raid sirens going off.

I just saw that. It is surreal. Someone calls out his name as he is wandering about, so he must be well known there?

I think the difference is probably that two weeks into covid would put us in maybe mid jan 2020? And at that point, no - that many people in the uk weren't talking about it.

Posting this link again which might help anyone with anxiety about the current situation. Try to look at the way you are looking at things, are they helpful or unhelpful thoughts: www.getselfhelp.co.uk/unhelpful.htm

When I had CBT a year or so ago for anxiety, my therapist taught me the STOPP technique which others might find helpful: www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/STOPP.pdf

@Wingingthis

What would be the implications if Belarus do invade tonight? Will this escalate things further? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

I was wondering what the implications are if Belarus are officially involved - as they are not a nuclear superpower. Is it easier/more likely for NATO involvement without invoking article 5, if it is just aimed at Belarusian troops?

I find that people are talking about it.

And I've had some really interesting conversations with my teen DC and a couple of their friends.

It shows up the difference between the generation who just gets it, because the Cold War was part of our political landscape, and for whom the conflict in former Yugoslavia (war in Europe, besieged capital city, attempted genocide, shelling of civilians, 2.5million displaced people) is recent current affairs. And those who learned 20th century politics in a history lesson

Is it easier/more likely for NATO involvement without invoking article 5, if it is just aimed at Belarusian troops?

I don't think that idea is a starter - no way to be sure it was Belorussian only. The kit is all the same, and they could well be collocated with Russians. We can't put airframes over without significant risk from air defence systems, and they're operated by Russia aren't they? Russia shoots down a NATO plane - then what?

Similar thing here @Ethelswith. I remember the cold war and the fear of nuclear war in the 80's. My Dad had a load of literature related to his job about the aftermath of a nuclear attack, and he was very much of the opinion that 'bright light, then nothing' was absolutely the best place to be in the event of it happening. I live somewhere that is a target so actually feel happier knowing that would be the outcome for me and my family.

Just seen this announcement about anti-war concerts by Oxxymiron, the hugely successful Russian rapper who also cancelled sell-out concerts in Russia, saying he couldn't entertain Russians while missiles were falling on Ukraine.

First concert to be held in Istanbul, all proceeds to Ukrainian refugees.

twitter.com/INechepurenko/status/1502318402140094469?s=20&t=dQod_V3hBXcB1o1PM8II3A

I've found the opposite - have very good friends who are Hungarian and arent interested at all. I think the experience of growing up under the soviets, then independence, then Yugoslavia, (plus various other minor things) has contributed to a "here we go again" kind of feeling, rather than a shock at how awful it is - iyswim?

DH has been chatting to a Ukrainian-Canadian who lives nearby. They say that their sibling in Russia does not believe that Russia has attacked Ukraine. The isolation and misinformation must be incredible.

My friends aren't talking about it which is odd as we're all quite political. My boss is, which is helpful or I'd feel I was in some weird alternate universe. As things have got worse I've stopped talking to my teenager about it so much though.

@AuldAlliance - in a similar vein, one of the nice things on the news yesterday was a piece about a gig at a nightclub at Chelsea's ground that was allowed to go ahead yesterday. Craig David for War Child

(complete coincidence of timing - he's supported then for years, but had a nice resonance)

New thread : Ukraine Invasion Part 12 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4502729-ukraine-invasion-part-12

@AgnesWestern
The most fearful time I can remember was the 9/11 attacks and all the stuff with Bin Laden

Much worse for the Iraqis. “The first scientific study of the human cost of the Iraq war suggests that at least 100,000 civilians have lost their lives since their country was invaded in March 2003. More than half of those who died were women and children killed in air strikes, researchers say.” (Lancet, October 2004).

So possibly 50,000 civilian deaths from US bombs in an 18 month period. Of course we’ll never know anything like the true figures, because the West didn’t care enough to count Iraqi children and civilians who were killed in their war of aggression.

“supermoonrising
So possibly 50,000 civilian deaths from US bombs in an 18 month period. Of course we’ll never know anything like the true figures, because the West didn’t care enough to count Iraqi children and civilians who were killed in their war of aggression.“

It is so strange isn’t it? How we can get by so easily glossing over it, just letting it be a shadow in the back of our minds every now and then while getting on with life.