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Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

999 replies

cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 10:45

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

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Thread gallery
19
cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 10:49

Guardian live feed

Exodus from Ukraine is fastest-growing refugee crisis in Europe since World War Two - UNHCR
More than 1.5m refugees have fled Ukraine in the past 10 days in the fastest-growing refugee crisis in Europe since the second world war, the United Nations has said.

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi, tweeted: “More than 1.5 million refugees from Ukraine have crossed into neighbouring countries in 10 days - the fastest growing refugee crisis in Europe since World War II.”

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 10:59

On refugees - the Government is getting pushback

The French interior minister, Gerald Darmanin, has urged Britain to do more to help Ukrainian refugees stuck in the French port of Calais, saying British officials were turning many away due to not having the necessary visas or paperwork.

“I have twice contacted my British counterpart. I told her to set up a consulate in Calais,” Darmanin told Europe 1 radio, referring to British home secretary Priti Patel.

“We have good relations with (Patel). I am sure she is a decent person. I am sure she will solve this problem,” he added.

Darmanin said hundreds of Ukrainian refugees had arrived at Calais in the last few days, hoping to join family in the UK, but that many had been turned away by British officials and told to obtain visas at UK consulates in Paris or Brussels.

On Sunday the UK justice secretary, Dominic Raab, suggested support for Ukraine would be undermined if the UK let refugees in without visas.

OP posts:
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 06/03/2022 11:00

“More than 1.5 million refugees from Ukraine have crossed into neighbouring countries in 10 days - the fastest growing refugee crisis in Europe since World War II.”

It's inevitable that it will be. It's remarkable that Poland is holding up so well. It must be so difficult for Ukrainians to decide if they want to transit through Poland to another country or if they're hoping to return to Ukraine in the relatively near future.

DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 11:02

Thanks for the new thread

Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9
cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 11:04

It is true that most refugees want to remain near their country. That's not talked about when people discuss the relatively few refugees coming here compared to the many millions in camps near their country when you discuss refugees across the world.

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Catquestion · 06/03/2022 11:05

Thank you for the new thread.

I will email my MP and do some research to see if any local groups are co-ordinating group sponsorship as I’m pretty certain I won’t have sufficient money to do it solo.

cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 11:06

Interesting article on 'Ukraine fatigue' and the cost of living crisis

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/06/russia-economy-sanctions-ukraine-west-cost-of-living-crisis

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Catquestion · 06/03/2022 11:11

@cakeorwine

It is true that most refugees want to remain near their country. That's not talked about when people discuss the relatively few refugees coming here compared to the many millions in camps near their country when you discuss refugees across the world.
Would we be better donating money to relevant charities in Poland rather than contributing to UK sponsorship?

Or stick with DEC?

TokyoSushi · 06/03/2022 11:11

Checking in

RankingMyBest · 06/03/2022 11:16

If he does want to show leadership, he could allow those Ukrainians at Calais to board the Eurostar without a visa, for a starter, but no, such a small humanitarian gesture is beyond this Government.

I also agree but on the other hand, wouldn't this be seen as extremely racist and hypocritical if Boris allowed Europeans to be waved through but Syrians and afghans didn't get this support when they needed it?

elephantmarchingin · 06/03/2022 11:18

Today I am struggling.

I haven't been able to sleep and can't settle as such keep thinking what those final moment would be like if it got to that stage.

I wish Boris and his cronies would think for a second and take a small step back for a bit to take some pressure off the uk. It's the well we will be alright as we have a nuclear bunker and escape routes but the rest of us don't! He needs to start thinking of his country.

I keep thinking would nato really step in to an isolated small island who really have nothing to offer either them of Russia.

I'm scared

HeadPain · 06/03/2022 11:20

"The French interior minister, Gerald Darmanin, has urged Britain to do more to help Ukrainian refugees stuck in the French port of Calais, saying British officials were turning many away due to not having the necessary visas or paperwork.

“I have twice contacted my British counterpart. I told her to set up a consulate in Calais,” Darmanin told Europe 1 radio, referring to British home secretary Priti Patel.

“We have good relations with (Patel). I am sure she is a decent person. I am sure she will solve this problem,” he added.

Darmanin said hundreds of Ukrainian refugees had arrived at Calais in the last few days, hoping to join family in the UK, but that many had been turned away by British officials and told to obtain visas at UK consulates in Paris or Brussels.

On Sunday the UK justice secretary, Dominic Raab, suggested support for Ukraine would be undermined if the UK let refugees in without visas."

Oh, but I'm just reading in another thread here about how racist we all are because we are apparently enthusiastically waving all Ukranians into Britian and blocked refugees from elsewhere, apparently. Hmm

cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 11:20

Would we be better donating money to relevant charities in Poland rather than contributing to UK sponsorship

I suppose it's about where you think you can do most good.

As a slight perspective, some facts and figures on refugees from the UNHCR

www.unhcr.org/mid-year-trends
www.unhcr.org/statistics/unhcrstats/618ae4694/mid-year-trends-2021.html

As the 2021 Mid-Year Trends report outlines, UNHCR estimates that global forced displacement has likely exceeded 84 million by mid-2021, a sharp increase from the 82.4 million reported at end-2020

84 million people have been displaced from their homes across the world.

Turkey hosted 3.7 million refugees, the largest population worldwide.
Colombia was second with more than 1.7 million, including Venezuelans displaced abroad, followed by Uganda (1.5 million), Pakistan (1.4 million) and Germany (1.2 million).

1 in 8 people in the Lebanon is a refugee

73 per cent of refugees and displaced abroad lived in countries neighbouring their countries of origin

So maybe a donation to the UNHCR or agencies on the ground?

OP posts:
Snuginagrobag · 06/03/2022 11:21

Placemarking

DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 11:22

BBC live

A new evacuation route opens

As we've been reporting, authorities in Mariupol, the south-eastern port city, say that a fresh ceasefire is coming into effect to allow trapped civilians to evacuate.

The effort began about an hour ago, but we're unable to confirm at this point if buses and cars have begun to move.

AuldAlliance · 06/03/2022 11:25

Thanks for the new thread.
Just to pick up on sth from the previous thread.
I'm really, really not a Macron fan and there is no doubt that he is going to milk his current visibility on the international scene for electoral reasons, but France currently holds the (rolling) presidency of the EU. That's one reason why he is so active just now.
Whether he should have skipped his turn in the run-up to the elections is another question, not for this thread.

Thewiseoneincognito · 06/03/2022 11:25

From the last thread

Valenciaoranges
Sanctions:
When will all the luxury brands and fashion houses stop selling or withdraw from Russia? These brands are hugely popular. I’m thinking:
Chanel
YSL
Gucci
LV
Valentino etc

All of those brands have now closed their stores.

MarshaBradyo · 06/03/2022 11:26

LBC excellent atm, going over past security decisions etc

Bit noisy here so might go back to it (not sure if they offer that actually)

Andouillette · 06/03/2022 11:26

@RankingMyBest

If he does want to show leadership, he could allow those Ukrainians at Calais to board the Eurostar without a visa, for a starter, but no, such a small humanitarian gesture is beyond this Government.

I also agree but on the other hand, wouldn't this be seen as extremely racist and hypocritical if Boris allowed Europeans to be waved through but Syrians and afghans didn't get this support when they needed it?

I do not think that the filling in of a form to prove that they are Ukrainian is too much to ask. I would rather our resources went to help those in truly dire need i.e. actual Ukrainians fleeing their poor, destroyed country, not a load of Putin sympathising people from Russia and Belarus! As for the Syrians and Afghans, hugely disproportionate numbers of young(ish) males. What happened to their wives, children, mothers, grandmothers? Were they left behind to fend for themselves? That being said, people will see what they want to see. If they want to yell about racism, they will whatever is done.
Notonthestairs · 06/03/2022 11:31

I'm not sure it's the filling in a form that's the problem - it's having to go to Paris or Brussels to do it (and query how well publicised this is).
We could set up temporary facilities at Calais to address this.

Lonelycrab · 06/03/2022 11:31

Placemarking. Thanks for all those on these threads, I’m finding it more useful than news reports which are getting to me tbh. Going through times when I feel somewhat calm, to just bursting out in tears at the senselessness of it allSad

DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 11:32

I would rather our resources went to help those in truly dire need i.e. actual Ukrainians fleeing their poor, destroyed country, not a load of Putin sympathising people from Russia and Belarus!

Don't worry, the Putin sympathisers already got in via their golden visa.

As for 'genuine' refugees......

HeadPain · 06/03/2022 11:32

www.independent.co.uk/news/ukraine-germany-russia-poland-kharkiv-b2028392.html

"Horrific deja vu in Ukraine for those who fled other wars

The endless stream of people walking in line, heading to the border to escape Russia's war on Ukraine, has marked a jarring déjà vu for some in the exodus

When Russia launched its war on Ukraine, a Syrian student in the city of Kharkiv joined the exodus of people fleeing the onslaught. It was the third time that 24-year-old Orwa Staif, who grew up in the suburbs of Damascus, was being displaced by war and crises.

For Staif, it was a jarring déjà vu: columns of people, many on foot, carrying what few belongings they could, desperate to escape bombs and missiles. He had seen it all before, in his native Syria.

“The same sounds of bombs that I heard in 2013, I heard now in Kharkiv. I told my friends ‘I can’t believe I’m reliving the same experience'," Staif told The Associated Press in Germany, where he has since reunited with his family.

According to the United Nations, more than 1 million people have fled Ukraine following Russia’s invasion, the swiftest refugee exodus this century. They fled to neighboring countries, with Poland taking in the highest number.

In 2013, rebels fighting to topple Syrian autocrat Bashar Assad were in Staif's hometown of Douma, at the doorstep of the capital, Damascus. Airstrikes, shelling and street fighting were common.

His father defected from the army and the family was forced to leave Syria. Like so many other families, they scattered — some went to the United Arab Emirates, some to Germany. Staif went to neighboring Lebanon, where he graduated from high school.

In 2019, the situation in Lebanon deteriorated dramatically, with the economy crashing and people taking to the streets in mass protests. Poverty and inflation soared in an unprecedented economic collapse.

Staif's father advised him to go study in Ukraine, where getting a visa — at least in theory — was easier than in other places. Staif succeeded and moved to Ukraine the following year, in February 2020.

When Russia invaded last week, pummeling Ukrainian cities with airstrikes and shelling — including Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city — many piled into trains and cars to the city of Lviv in western Ukraine, before heading to the Polish border. Staif managed to get on a train for a 16-hour journey to Lviv, and from there continued on foot toward Poland.

Over the weekend, the line of traffic stretched for 30 kilometers (19 miles), backed up with cars and people. The unlucky ones without transportation had to make the trip on foot. Women, the elderly and children were among the masses — along with some foreigners, mostly students from other countries.

“This journey is so tough. I can say ten years of displacement. Whenever I get used to a place, I get new acquaintance with my friends and then I leave everything and go," Staif said.

"It’s so hard and so disappointing for me and I hate it... It’s the war wherever I am. Crises all over the world and those places that I’ve been.

A Yemeni student of mechanical engineering, a young woman evacuated from Kabul when the Taliban seized Afghanistan and others share much of Staif's story.

Mohammad Shamiri, 23, from Yemen's capital of Sanaa, arrived in Ukraine four years ago to study mechanical engineering at the Kharkiv National Automobile and Highway University.

“I never imagined this could happen here," in Europe, Shamiri said.

While escaping Ukraine, the sound of war and bombing was much more intense, he added. In Yemen, where a Saudi-led coalition has been fighting since 2015 against Iran-backed Houthi rebels who overran Sanaa, the bombardment was more intermittent.

Shamiri said he walked for 20 hours with a friend, a fellow Yemeni, carrying bags in subfreezing cold. Temperatures dropped to 17 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 8 degrees Celsius). Like Staif, he described spending a night outside, in the open.
At the border, guards gave Ukrainians priority in leaving the country, pushing back and beating non-Ukrainians, he said. Shamiri was hit with a baton and saw people tasered, he said. When he tried to film this with his smart phone, a border guard grabbed the phone and made him delete all photos and videos.

After finally crossing over, he arrived at a hospital in Krakow, Poland, where he and his friend are now being treated.

For Masouma Tajik, a 23-year-old from Afghanistan, solidarity amongst neighboring states has been unique in this war. She had been in Ukraine for about six months since being evacuated from Kabul, escaping the Taliban, before she had to flee again.

After spending a night sleeping on the floor of a cold church in Lviv, she was connected to Polish volunteers via a WhatsApp solidarity group, and one crossed the border to pick her up and bring her over

“Many things happened that reminded me of Kabul. But the kindness that I was seeing on this journey was remarkable,” she said. “In Afghanistan, you saw neighboring countries like Iran, Uzbekistan and Pakistan close their borders to Afghans.”

Tajik said she had no trouble at the border, and despite having an expired 15-day visa, the guards gave her a warm smile and let her through.

“When I left Afghanistan and went to Ukraine, they welcomed me warmly and I felt the home that I had lost,” she said. “I hate war. I am tired of it. It has taken people from me who are dear to me. I cannot afford to lose more.”

Fellow Afghan refugee, Jawad Akmal, remembers speeding to the Kabul airport one night in August, escorted by Ukrainian Special Forces. He said his relief was enormous when he boarded the plane to Kyiv along with his family. His wife, he later found out, was pregnant with their sixth child.

They were waiting to be resettled in Canada, their final destination, but after six months living in a Kyiv hotel room, he found himself in the middle of another war, unable to find food for his children and afraid he would be arrested with expired documents before he could make the police understand he was a refugee.

It was easier in Afghanistan, he said.

“At least that was my country, a place where I could talk to people in my own language, to ask for help to find shelter for me and my family,” he said over the phone from Kyiv, just hours before they left for Poland, traveling for more than a day on a bus crowded with fleeing Ukrainians.

Staif recalled walking all evening and night from Lviv, reaching the Polish border before dawn. People slept in the street. They ran out of food and water. The images are forever in his mind, he said, “people, in the thousands, all headed to the border, Ukrainian women and children."

From Poland, Staif flew to Prague, the Czech Republic, where his family picked him up in a car and brought him to Nuremberg, Germany.

“I loved Ukraine, I loved the country. Everything was perfect for me until the Russians came,” Staif said. “For me, this isn’t a happy ending,” he added, even though he was grateful to be reunited with his family.

The software engineering student said he was supposed to finish his last year of studies in Ukraine. “Now I don’t know."

“I might have to start all over again,” he said.

Naddaff reported from Beirut. Associated Press writer Kathy Gannon in Islamabad contributed. "

DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 11:33

Filling in a form in English will be a problem for many refugees.

Greattimestroubledtimes · 06/03/2022 11:33

Placemarking

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