The Invasion Continues...

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Thread two as thread one is complete...

I’m not sure there’s much difference between that and boots on the ground but I can’t say I disagree with them doing it.

In military terms it's a significant difference.

Russia will not win. But sadly everyone will be losers off the back of this.

@Kassle

It would be very reckless to promise 44 million people that they could enter UK with no restrictions, and that they will be supported indefinitely.

Yes, because all 44 million of them will definitely come here.

The world changed on Thursday. Our lives changed. This is bigger than covid.

Sorry, did you not read the rest of my post?

Certainly, nowhere near that number would arrive in the UK

Look, I get it. It feels really good to pretend anyone pointing out practicalities is heartless and you are all noble and virtuous because you can just say you would react based only on emotions.

It’s a very real possibility that a large number of people will be unable to return home at the end of this monumental shitfest. It wouldn’t be a bad thing that countries consider that, and figure out the best way to support them in that case.

@Kassle I do understand that but I’m not convinced Putin will see it that way.

The world arms industry would be wetting themselves at a proper shooting war where they get to see what works and what doesn't work sadly.

I do understand that but I’m not convinced Putin will see it that way.

He might say he doesn't, but he does. Boots on the ground = immediate WW3.

This was scaringly written 3 days ago before the nuclear readiness bit.

"Finally, there is the frightening possibility that Putin will increase the alert status of his nuclear forces for his own reasons, leaving the Americans no choice but to raise their alert status. The invasion of Ukraine was preceded by the Russian Grom (meaning “thunder”) drills, a regular exercise held by Russia’s strategic nuclear forces. The timing was no accident; Putin relies on Russia’s nuclear deterrent as one of its last claims to superpower status, and he could activate another such exercise, or call for a heightened alert condition, if he thinks things are going poorly for Russia."

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/how-ukraine-could-become-nuclear-crisis/622915/

Everyone knew Putin was going to start waving his nukes about to scare us. Everyone knew that. It's not unexpected.

@Firefliess

Liz Truss's comments worry me. I'm not sure she's very bright or clued up. She's not been Foreign Secretary for long. Is there not a risk that encouraging British people to go and join the Ukrainian forces alongside arming those forces would be seen by Russia as tantamount to joining the war? Was that her intention?

I've just been listening to an interview on LBC (so a good quality source of information) with a US veteran talking about the realities of these Wannabe Heroes saying they'll get in a truck and head over to Ukraine.

• those people will be utterly clueless about the terrain in which they will find themselves. It takes months of hard endurance military training for soldiers to operate at the level required not to be a complete f'ing liability to the war effort!

• it takes months or even years of military training to handle a firearm, not just the weapon itself, but to know what to do if the firearm stops functioning, otherwise you're effectively toast, if you have a non-functioning weapon and a Russian coming up towards you.

• anyone confronted with the above situation will be immediately executed by the Russian military, no prisoners of war shtick, point blank shoot, gone.

Any British people thinking of going out there was strongly advised to seek legal advice before doing anything, it really isn't as simple as jump in a vehicle and off you go.

The likelihood of any British men doing so is precisely zero.

Pro Ukraine protest in Berlin today

Zelensky is the man of the century when the chips are down he dons battle fatigues and stays in the post doesn't hide in a fridge and he's a comedian to boot.

@Gingerwarthog

EU to begin shipping arms to Ukraine. BBC online.

Could anyone explain what the difference is between countries sending in arms to Ukraine but not having boots on the ground?

@DuncinToffee

Pro Ukraine protest in Berlin today

What a powerful image that is.

For Putin I suspect there is little difference. He’ll consider that whole statement today as an agressive act against his regime.

It takes hours at best to fully learn to use a specific individual weapon (assault rifle) from pulling a trigger through cleaning and stoppage drills. It's really not that involved.

The terrain, perhaps. Not convinced for European troops.

Most volunteers would, I imagine, be ex-forces and thus not a liability but an asset, especially those with experience of training or fighting in built up areas. Those who aren't would probably be held back, freeing Ukrainian troops to go forward.

@NobodysGonnaKnow

The likelihood of any British men doing so is precisely zero.

British men went to fight with ISIS. And this seems a much more compelling cause to most people so I'd imagine some will. Some will be British men with Ukrainian families and others just supporters.

I agree that they may not be that great at fighting when they get there - but still think that the UK foreign secretary encouraging them to go is dangerous in terms of how it will be seen

It’s basically done now. If he’s going to fire nuclear missiles the time is now/soon. He’s threatened the EU, they have accepted the threat and reacted with retaliatory action. Now we wait.

[quote vera99]Zelensky is the man of the century when the chips are down he dons battle fatigues and stays in the post doesn't hide in a fridge and he's a comedian to boot.

[/quote] Come on now, Johnson showed his support at the frontline yesterday

Fronline of Brize Norton that is.........

There are independent soldiers that might go. But your average British male will not. So I wouldn’t worry too much about an influx of pot bellied males holding remote controls as weapons.

@DuncinToffee

Pro Ukraine protest in Berlin today

Yes. Bloody wide road that and on the left somewhere is the Russian memorial. The Brandenburg gate, in the background, was closed off for decades while the wall was up. I recall a journalist saying no one had walked under it for x period of time back around the time the wall came down and I, as a sixteen year old, vowed to walk beneath it one day. I did finally, with my eldest who was then sixteen, a few years ago. And though I am not prone to emotion I cried.

Could anyone explain what the difference is between countries sending in arms to Ukraine but not having boots on the ground?

Ukraine is a non-NATO country, the UK would be ill-advised to send our Armed Forces in at this time. It would suck us into a conflict that could become WW3. It would play straight into Putin's hands. Once you start sending out troups, you're intervening in their conflict. That's a very different proposition to sending weapons, personal protection gear and humanitarian supplies.

However, if Russian troups set a toe-nail inside a NATO country, the alliance would be duty-bound to go to their aid.

I did wonder if allowing average Brits to go and fight created good conditions for plausible denial of any other soldiers that they may want to send without formally doing so.
Small numbers of spies, special forces or similar.

Boris just knows if all goes to shit at home he will be like Blair in Kosovo when he visits a liberated Ukraine - cometh the hour cometh the bloated Liar in Chief but I won't criticise him for that. Sunak must be worried though how big the open cheque will be.