Dealt with a guy serving me in a shop who made me feel like shit, and later realised he was a wannabe PUA

[parchedjanuary]

I'm actually so angry about what happened in the shop that I currently am incapable of explaining it here!!!

Arghhhh!!!

I will try and write a more coherent post tomorrow.

Basically, a local shop that sells very specific items. I went in last week. The guy that owns the shop served me. He was very helpful.

I went in again a few days ago. A new employee was working and the owner wasn't there. The new guy was incredibly rude, didn't help me at all, but equally told me how pretty he thought I was, asked me way to many personal questions, which I was so shocked about I stupidly answered. Did constant negging followed by weirdo complements. Then being really nice and friendly. But equally unhelpful. I felt terrible, couldn't wait to get out, kept thinking wtf???

I got home and remembered the thread on MN about women being approached by men/boys practicing their PUA (pick up artist) game.... and looking into it a bit more, I think this might have been what he was practicing.

I'm still so angry I can't even express what happened!!!

I do intend to go back in to the shop and hopefully see the owner and tell him what his employee is up to when left alone.

Sorry this post makes no sense at all. I'm just so sad and angry about it!!!

I will attempt another post with a better explanation when I'm a bit more calm

If you don't have the language, you can't name the "thing".

And it makes it harder for women to share info on what to look out for, or how to challenge it. This fact is understood by those who try to police language.
PUA tactics started as the tactics of sales, that have been turned into a specific type of coercive control. Its a red flag, not a genuine interaction.

@fluffiphlox

I was struck by your comment that you wear a personal alarm on a lanyard. How common is this?

I wouldn't find it strange at all.

We were all given one when we started at university in a big city.

I know a PUA. he’s a complete tool

@TatianaBis

These labels are a complete red herring. I don’t know why women on here need them - PUA/Incel/Wendy/Karen etc.

You went into a shop, the new assistant was a twat, you won’t go in there again.

Not sure why you’re lumping in the misogynistic slurs ‘Wendy’ and ‘Karen’. They are not at all relevant.

The reason that labels are important is because it allows people to name the behaviour and have it easily recognised by others (which is exactly what has happened on this thread). If a vulnerable group (in this instance women) cannot specifically name the harmful behaviour they face (in this case PUA, negging, INCEL tactics) then this only ever benefits the perpetrators, not the victims. Language matters. Women being heard and understood matters.

Personal alarm.
When I retired early from teaching I started working in a furniture restoration place. We all had units, we shared shop shifts. I was often alone. I had a rape alarm for years. It hit 90 decibels. I had it in my pocket so that if I needed it the huge sound would shock someone long enough for me to be able to get away, grab something, get to my car. I wish I had had one when I was at college as a young woman.

I read Neil Straus's The Game some years ago. The book basically describes how he and a small group of sexual inadequates (by their own admission) banded together in a shared house and attempted to developed strategies for picking up women, with varying success.
To be honest, the notority surrounding Strauss and his book are not particularly well-deserved; it is written in a rambling style and is not particularly illuminating or insightful.

Pick up artists are confidence tricksters but there is no magic in what they weave. You are not going to be transported into the boudoir by Svengali-esque magic; expressions like PUA, negging, and so on are just meaningless cant.

Well done OP and thank you for being brave enough to post about your experience.

It’s a shame that some posters continue to kid themselves that it’s no big deal and the solution is to ignore the perpetrator and do nothing, but I wonder if they’d still hold that opinion if they had young daughters on the receiving end of this type of vile misogyny?

Also, where I live, it’s entirely normal to have long chats with a shop assistant whatever it is that your buying. It’s rare not to have some kind of conversation with the checkout operator in the supermarket. Only one local supermarket has a couple of self service tills which are rarely used by anyone local. We actually value our local community and the people living here.

However, if I overheard a predatory male serving in a local shop using those ‘techniques’ on a young woman, I’d definitely be taking the matter further.

[quote parchedjanuary]@JinglingHellsBells don't want to give myself away. It's very similar to Brighton. Not Brighton, but very like Brighton.

It's a good area, but very strangely we don't have a shop here. It's really strange we don't have a shop!! Very densely occupied with mostly new build apartments. Sainsburys are opening a shop for us this year...everyone is so very excited! It's an area that has undergone massive regeneration and due to its transport links it's expensive to live here. The immediate area is safe, but you can't go to the main road after dark. I use deliveroo etc, everyone here does.

It is an affluent city. But extremely divided in terms of wealth and poverty. I guess like some parts of London in that way....you can find very wealthy areas next to very very deprived areas. I would say most people don't walk around after dark if they can help it.

I have ordered what I needed online but it hasn't arrived. It's apparently been sent first class but I haven't seen a postman for weeks....covid I guess?

[/quote]
Is it Bristol ?

I also have a personal alarm for when I go walking alone but it's in my pocket .

@Battytwatty

I know a PUA. he’s a complete tool

Oh I have to ask....well, everything. How much interaction do you have to have?

I vaguely recall one being hired in one place I worked, he was out within a fortnight.

I would complain about him op and say you wont be using the shop again because of what happened

the owner should beconcerned his emplyee has lost him business

@fluffiphlox

I was struck by your comment that you wear a personal alarm on a lanyard. How common is this?

I do, too. Up until lockdown I was being stalked in my workplace by a man who was fired for sexually harassing me some years previously. He still hadn't let up after a long lapse in time, despite having been ejected and told on numerous occasions to stay off the premises.

I've no idea whether or not he will have got tired of it by now, but I'm still looking over my shoulder. It's horrible. I'm into my forties and still having to face relentless harassment from predatory males.

My alarm goes with me everywhere I go. If I'm in the office after hours, I lock myself in from the inside. Absolutely fucking sick of women simply having to accept that this is the way we are compelled to live because some men still don't know how to conduct themselves as decent human beings.

OP - kudos for recognising this predatory, abusive shit for precisely what it is. That's the first step toward negating it. If all women were able to do so, it simply wouldn't work.

@Ozgirl75

I haven’t lived in the U.K. for 15 years but I guess things have changed a lot in that time. I’m also from the south of England originally and there weren’t any areas of any cities or towns that i wouldn’t have gone to back then (apart from maybe bits of Portsmouth or Hastings but they’re not affluent so that can’t be where you mean!). That’s really sad that things have changed so much over that time.

I was thinking Reading. There’s a couple of streets there I’ve felt this way.

@TatianaBis

These labels are a complete red herring. I don’t know why women on here need them - PUA/Incel/Wendy/Karen etc.

You went into a shop, the new assistant was a twat, you won’t go in there again.

Because it’s a script. Because lots of women, especially young women, struggle to be ‘impolite’ and interactions like this are confusing . Because if they know what they’re doing why shouldn’t women be aware of it. Because OP wanted to talk about something that make her feel crap. Because it’s a discussion forum. Because she wanted to. Because lots of men are shits and this is a specific type of shit and knowledge is power. Because it’s Wednesday.

Patkimmy

'You only have to look at the recent James Bond films to see I'm onto something here (sorry I know this has been discussed elsewhere on mn). In Skyfall (2012) Bond sneaks into a woman's shower and well, she seems quite happy about it. But in the recent one just a decade later (I saw it at the weekend) he is practically sexless - he dare not even try to flirt with the Bond women, for fear of causing offence or being politically incorrect.'

Contd..

You surely can't actually be as dense as that! Surely?!

The woman he sneaked into the shower with was a victim of sex trafficking, forced into prostitution. Iirc at a young age (can't quite remember but think they implied that).

He had said he could get her away from the man controlling her. The very very scary man.

At the time it was obvious to most that-

She needed his help and wouldn't want to jeopardise that. Saying no could well mean he wouldn't help her.
He knew her history (ongoing?) of being sold for sex by a man to other men. In short loads of men had raped her and she couldn't do anything at all to stop the constant sexual abuse.

You see red blood masculine man scores with yet another hot woman and she loves it?
Well I suppose we all see things differently!

We're talking about Daniel Craig here?

The man who did a video with Judi dench to highlight sexism? Where he started outfitted in dress makeup wig etc

The man who when asked about getting off with an 'older' woman said, hold on, she's the same age as me?

The man who didn't want to do this or the last film due to his age, and the physical requirements of the role?

The man who has said in various interviews that he played bond truer to the books. That bond is a psychopath. A cold blooded killer. That he's NOT a man to be admired at all.

In this film he had settled down and retired. He is older.

You believe that he wasn't fucking all and sundry because... Sexist, feminists don't like it, woke?

And not to do with the fact that the character had changed? You missed his FFS look when the woman asked where the bedroom was?

Loads on the internet, might alter your thoughts.
(I'm 99.999% sure nothing will!)

From the horses mouth-

'"No more Bond girls. They don’t exist anymore. They may exist again, but not in my movies.”

Go tell your thoughts to Daniel Craig.

His fingerprints were all over the story.

I'm sure part of them pleading for one more bond came with him having loads input into film, if he didn't already.

Oh OP

Sorry your thread went sideways. With loads of posters focusing on your behaviour rather than the weirdo in the shop.

Obviously let the boss know. Just say unprofessional, you felt v uncomfy, he wasn't even helpful about what you wanted in shop.

Ignore the reams of posts saying anything like-

Where do you live can't you go shops less rough area?
Why do you live there?
Why do you have lanyard alarm?
Don't go manager, you need to handle it yourself.
You lack self confidence and that's the problem (need to change/ accept? Understand this happens because you're an obvious target/ asking for it?).
Hmmm .. shops don't have people serving much at all these days.. (eh? Loads do. Weird thing to say! implication of post- iffy story. )
You were only being chatted up/ complimented FFS get a grip.

Sure there's more!

Even on MN the automatic what did she do wrong? (Let's ignore if the man did anything wrong). That's shit.

Personally I wasn’t asking the OP why she wears a lanyard alarm (up to her entirely) I was asking the thread in general how common it is to wear one.

@Graphista

Doesn't matter if he is a PUA he shouldn't be doing that in the workplace!

Call and speak to the owner and report his arse!

Hopefully he gets the sack!

Yes, report him OP. What a creepy thing to do and totally inappropriate. He's an arrogant little bollix who needs to be put in his place!

Complain strongly, but calmly and politely to the owner of the business when you feel a bit stronger - he needs to know how badly his staff is behaving, if he is any kind of business person he will thank you - without your feedback he won't know
I complained to the owner of a small local cafe about really poor rude service from a member of his staff and he thanked me, apologised and gave me a free coffee and cake - now that's how it should be, but I had to wait until the emotion had cooled, so I could be very polite

@parchedjanuary Tell the owner about his behaviour, tell him you will no longer shop there. If the guy keeps his job, tell any women you know not to shop there.

What an absolute creep. I had a boyfriend and a male friend who definitely used these tactics and funnily enough I am now in contact with neither of them. It makes me feel sick to think about it.

My one and only encounter with a hard-nosed card-carrying PUA was in the late 1990's when I was out with some friends in a crowded pub. I was really shaken by it, and had no idea what had happened to me or what this behaviour was called until quite a few years later.

They disconcert you, wrong-foot you, backhanded compliments, the lot. I can't remember what he said now, but it started with something like did I have a boyfriend, then why not, then how impressed he was with my confidence. 'Oh, because you really don't care, do you? You've got the confidence to go out without bothering to get dressed up and make yourself look attractive... you don't care what other people think of you. And so on.

They ask simple questions, like are you married. Then when you say no, they say no, I didn't think you would be.

It is all designed to put you on the defensive.