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Original poster

Child deliberately not eating enough to stay up later

214 replies

Helpmetosleepplease · 26/12/2021 19:02

DD is 6, she hates going to bed and will do everything to get out of it. I’ve learnt to ignore her and put her to bed, she does eventually sleep.

She’s now realised if she doesn’t eat enough at 5pm she’s too hungry to sleep. I’ve tried ignoring it but she wakes up 2, 3, 4 times in the night screaming she’s hungry which means I get even less sleep.

So she’s now having a substantial snack at 7pm (bed time is 7.30pm – snack has to be toast or a crumpet and a piece of fruit and sometimes she’s still hungry and wants a bowl of cereal (dry)) but she’s then too hyped up to sleep so ends up playing (with no toys just her own voice) until 9 or 10pm at night.

I can’t sleep until she goes to sleep (anxiety related) so that’s meaning I’m not getting enough sleep.

Earlier bedtime doesn’t help, not giving the snack means she wakes up, giving a smaller snack means she still hasn’t eaten enough so wakes up in the night, just milk doesn’t help because she doesn’t really like it so will take a few sips and then say she doesn’t want anymore, she also doesn’t like water or squash – she’d live off fruit juice if allowed but the dentist has said it’s really bad for her.

I suspect she has ASD although no-one agrees so I’m struggling to get anyone to get a diagnosis for her. She is diagnosed with Hypermobility and has an eye problem as well.

Any suggestions? I can’t go on like this. I need to sleep.

OP posts:
ToffeeForEveryone · 26/12/2021 19:06

Load her up at breakfast and lunch!

Original poster
Helpmetosleepplease · 26/12/2021 19:08

@ToffeeForEveryone

Load her up at breakfast and lunch!
She's always had a massive appetite so even if I did a late lunch by 5pm she's asking for food again, especially as she doesn't drink much at all she's always hungry.

She's tiny for her age as well, so no idea where she puts it.

OP posts:
stillsleeptraining · 26/12/2021 19:09

Could you do some collaborative problem solving with her? Trying to think which book I read about this in - maybe "How to talk so kids will listen" or "the book you wish your parents had read".

I'm really sympathetic. Kids!

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6 year olds Families
NoKnit · 26/12/2021 19:11

I find it a very weird way to do things.

Give her a snack at 4:30 - 5 and eat dinner at about 6:30? Seems obvious solution to me.

lavenderhoneyfig · 26/12/2021 19:14

Say she can stay up an extra 15mins if she eats all of her tea.

FTEngineerM · 26/12/2021 19:17

Does she sleep all night from 10pm if you give her food? From your op it sounds like that’s the case, as she only wakes up 2/3/4 times if hungry screaming?

Original poster
Helpmetosleepplease · 26/12/2021 19:17

@NoKnit

I find it a very weird way to do things.

Give her a snack at 4:30 - 5 and eat dinner at about 6:30? Seems obvious solution to me.

@NoKnit she has her main meal at lunchtime at school or holiday club apart from weekends, it's the way I've always done it and the way ExH does it with her (she doesn't sleep there at all though).

So she has soup or beans on toast or something like an omelette at 4.30-5pm. But she will easily eat a 3 egg omelette and some toast. But now she eats nothing or a quarter and then is hungry again at 7pm.

I never had snacks growing up, at all, my family couldn't afford it, so if you didn't eat your meals at the times you went without. It's only since becoming a mum myself I've realised thats unusual.

OP posts:
pastabest · 26/12/2021 19:18

Main meal at lunchtime for a bit. Let her snack on toast/cereals etc in the evening.

Turn the clocks back an hour if she can tell the time...

Original poster
Helpmetosleepplease · 26/12/2021 19:18

@FTEngineerM

Does she sleep all night from 10pm if you give her food? From your op it sounds like that’s the case, as she only wakes up 2/3/4 times if hungry screaming?
Yes she does usually sleeps 7.30-5amish which I can manage with as I then go to bed at 8-8.30pm and get up between 4.30 and 4.45am.
OP posts:
felulageller · 26/12/2021 19:21

What time does she/you get up in the morning?

Even if it's as early as 6am maybe she only needs 8/9 hours sleep? Some children do only need this. If she has 8/9 hours and wakes fine and isn't tired then you have to rethink her bedtime.

Hen2018 · 26/12/2021 19:21

Do you think your anxiety is “rubbing off” on her?

There’s no reason to believe a bowl of cereal would make a child “hyped up”. I’d consider not mentioning food intake, bedtimes or how long it takes her (or you) to get to sleep, for several weeks. It’s becoming a thing, when it’s not dangerous or worth getting upset about.

Crazylemon86 · 26/12/2021 19:23

Would a visual schedule help so she can tick as as she does them in the wind down to bedtime? This could include her snack but also some voice play but only for a period of time before the next part of trying to sleep

FakeFruitShoot · 26/12/2021 19:24

Why do you get up before her? Doesn't the noise you make wake her? 8.30 bedtime sounds miserable for you...

How do you feel about bedsharing (from 5am when she wakes if that would work better?)

It is really interesting that you say she does it almost deliberately to stay up, what do you think she wants to stay up for? Does she think it's grown up, does she like the attention, is she scared of her room, does she like the extra screentime?

fallfallfall · 26/12/2021 19:25

What physical activity is she getting?

NoKnit · 26/12/2021 19:25

I don't think whether you had snacks growing up has anything to do with it.

My suggestion (you did ask for suggestions) is to try giving her evening meal a bit later. If she doesn't eat much at 5 then there is no harm as far as I can see. Give her dinner later then she won't be hungry at bedtime?

Hen2018 · 26/12/2021 19:26

Sorry if my message sounded sharp but there are so many people with hang ups about eating due to being made to eat everything, or promised foods if they would force down spoonfuls of foods they didn’t like etc.

Same with bedtimes. Children’s bedtimes are arbitrary so you can do what you like. Children will become anxious if they’re being fussed, nagged and cajoled.

Nanny2many · 26/12/2021 19:26

Eggs and beans on toast may not be enough for her. Have you tried a more substantial meal….. spag Bol, chicken pie, etc? Something stodgy and filling .
Alternatively, a good way to test her motivation for waking would be to leave the snack in her room and tell her she’s welcome to eat it if she wakes hungry as long as she doesn’t disturb you. Then lots of praise the next morning Good luck

Hospedia · 26/12/2021 19:31

Give her a basic pudding with her dinner - fruit, yoghurt, rice pudding, bananas in custard, etc - serve it at the same time as her omelette (or whatever she's having) with no conditions at all attached to eating it. This is something DS dietician recommends. The idea is that they get enough calories across the two courses, the no strings attached takes all the anxiety and battling out of the equation.

delilahbucket · 26/12/2021 19:32

Feed her later so she's really hungry, and let her stay up longer, but it needs to be super boring. She doesn't get to go to her room, she can get ready for bed and put a boring documentary on to watch together, something she has no interest in. If she wants to stay up, that's fine, on your terms. I firmly believe that bedrooms are for sleeping in at that age. If you're not sleeping, you are not in your bedroom. Otherwise it creates associations with being in the room.
Worth exploring though, is she actually hungry, or is this something that you've said to her once and she's jumped on it as an excuse because she doesn't want to go to bed? Just remember, you only need to say something to a child once for it to stick. Hyped up on a slice of toast or a crumpet really isn't a thing either.

Scarydinosaurs · 26/12/2021 19:32

I agree with @Hen2018

Stop talking to her about food and bedtime in a negative way.

I’ve found it really effective to frame bedtime and sleep with positive things like ‘having the energy to go and play in the park tomorrow’.

Yoghurt/milk before bed is filling and nice.

I’d sort out why she is resisting sleep - the food stuff is a distraction from it all.

Are you getting help for your anxiety? Why are you getting up at 4:30 if she sleeps into 5?

Theyellowflamingo · 26/12/2021 19:32

Much depends on ASD. With my neurotypical child they’d just be hungry until breakfast by that age, assuming dinner was something they normally ate and they’d learn very quickly it wasn’t a successful strategy. They’d be in very big trouble for screaming about it in the middle of the night age 6 too. But I also can’t quite imagine them behaving that way anyway, certainly not repeatedly.

With my child with ASD (who absolutely does behave in those sorts of ways and is also an awfully early riser) I’d move dinnertime or make dinner something they really liked so they ate more of it. Mine is also quite open to rewards/bribes so there would be a small reward for eating all their meal. Any snack would be boring and eaten in the most boring environment possible- does toast really hype her up that much?

2bazookas · 26/12/2021 19:34

If her "main meal" is school lunch followed by a tea of soup or beans on toast at 4.30 to 5, no wonder she's hungry .

Do you share any meals with her, sitting at the table both eating and talking?

What does she have for breakfast?

Original poster
Helpmetosleepplease · 26/12/2021 19:35

@FakeFruitShoot

Why do you get up before her? Doesn't the noise you make wake her? 8.30 bedtime sounds miserable for you...

How do you feel about bedsharing (from 5am when she wakes if that would work better?)

It is really interesting that you say she does it almost deliberately to stay up, what do you think she wants to stay up for? Does she think it's grown up, does she like the attention, is she scared of her room, does she like the extra screentime?

She says she finds sleeping boring.

I tried bedsharing but then I got even less sleep as she sat laughing and poking me, kept being too hot then too cold, wanted a cuddle, but kept talking to me. I tried for a week or so and she was miserable in the day as so tired.

OP posts:
Original poster
Helpmetosleepplease · 26/12/2021 19:37

@delilahbucket

Feed her later so she's really hungry, and let her stay up longer, but it needs to be super boring. She doesn't get to go to her room, she can get ready for bed and put a boring documentary on to watch together, something she has no interest in. If she wants to stay up, that's fine, on your terms. I firmly believe that bedrooms are for sleeping in at that age. If you're not sleeping, you are not in your bedroom. Otherwise it creates associations with being in the room. Worth exploring though, is she actually hungry, or is this something that you've said to her once and she's jumped on it as an excuse because she doesn't want to go to bed? Just remember, you only need to say something to a child once for it to stick. Hyped up on a slice of toast or a crumpet really isn't a thing either.
She wakes up screaming saying her tummy hurts because she's hungry, I've never told her she's hungry.

Part of the issue is she doesn't drink anything at all really, so she could be thirsty but she refuses to drink and instead wants to eat all the time.

OP posts:
Original poster
Helpmetosleepplease · 26/12/2021 19:39

@2bazookas

If her "main meal" is school lunch followed by a tea of soup or beans on toast at 4.30 to 5, no wonder she's hungry .

Do you share any meals with her, sitting at the table both eating and talking?

What does she have for breakfast?

I don't eat full meals with her in the week only at weekends, we sit at the table for those. In the week I often have the same as her a 4.30-5pm.
OP posts: