Child deliberately not eating enough to stay up later

[Helpmetosleepplease]

DD is 6, she hates going to bed and will do everything to get out of it. I’ve learnt to ignore her and put her to bed, she does eventually sleep.

She’s now realised if she doesn’t eat enough at 5pm she’s too hungry to sleep. I’ve tried ignoring it but she wakes up 2, 3, 4 times in the night screaming she’s hungry which means I get even less sleep.

So she’s now having a substantial snack at 7pm (bed time is 7.30pm – snack has to be toast or a crumpet and a piece of fruit and sometimes she’s still hungry and wants a bowl of cereal (dry)) but she’s then too hyped up to sleep so ends up playing (with no toys just her own voice) until 9 or 10pm at night.

I can’t sleep until she goes to sleep (anxiety related) so that’s meaning I’m not getting enough sleep.

Earlier bedtime doesn’t help, not giving the snack means she wakes up, giving a smaller snack means she still hasn’t eaten enough so wakes up in the night, just milk doesn’t help because she doesn’t really like it so will take a few sips and then say she doesn’t want anymore, she also doesn’t like water or squash – she’d live off fruit juice if allowed but the dentist has said it’s really bad for her.

I suspect she has ASD although no-one agrees so I’m struggling to get anyone to get a diagnosis for her. She is diagnosed with Hypermobility and has an eye problem as well.

Any suggestions? I can’t go on like this. I need to sleep.

@Theyellowflamingo I stand corrected. That's awful 😞

When I was pregnant I used to drink a mug of hot chocolate made with full fat milk before bed. I found I slept better because otherwise I would wake up hungry.

Sorry, I've just read the thread and realised she doesn't like hot chocolate.
Maybe leave her with healthy snack, and a toothbrush ready and prep her on how to snack and brush her teeth and get back into bed herself - so at least you're not bothered. And after the initial excitement about doing it herself, the novelty will wear off and she'll be more motivated to eat more in the last meal of the day.
But that solution is heavily influenced by
how I'd deal with it for my DC (5). So I can imagine it wouldn't work for many.
It sounds like a super tough situation x

School lunches are absolutely tiny. Give her more food at home for a bit and a bit later in the evening before you worry too much about other diagnoses.

She may shaving a growth spurt, or it may be the other issues you've mentioned but a school portion of macaroni cheese for example is likely to be a small spoonful on a plate and a spoonful of veg whereas at home you might give her 3spoonfuls plus lots of veg and maybe a bread roll etc...

I have read every response thank you.

I've let her have Fruit Juice today to see if she is less hungry from drinking it, should also help with fibre.

I do work more or less full time (30 hours) but work it around DD so she isn't in wraparound or anything but I do use a holiday club. She does swimming and rainbows after school on different nights.

Dietitician is on my list to contact, as is school nurse. Even if it's not ASD there's something going on with her.

I will reply in more detail later as I'm currently working.

Thank you everyone

OP I'm a dentist and I think fruit juice is the answer but gradually water it down over time. If you're brushing well with a fluoride toothpaste 2x it shouldn't do that much damage especially if mainly taken at mealtimes. Just try to reduce the frequency as small sips taken often are worse than whole cups all at once. If you see an Nhs dentist it's likely they didn't have the time to consider your situation as a whole and it's far far more important that she drinks rather than what she drinks. People are suggesting more protein but eggs are full of protein. My 4 year old doesn't wake early but has a 8-8:30 bedtime and sometimes still isn't tired enough

@FTEngineerM

A lot of neurodiverse children ended up in institutions decades ago ,and they were beaten into 'submission' there.

As for decreasing the carbs, someone suggested protein powder in cakes. I used to make dd lowish sugar cakes with lots of eggs - enough so that I didn’t need to add extra fluid. Think 5 large eggs in place of 2. I also tried adding things like 20% milled flaxseed. You’d have to be careful with adding any kind of thing like this as it does change texture and colour. Dd ate chocolate cakes so I could hide all manner of things. I also made cakes with added courgette or carrot.

YY to adding veggies (cooked and pureed works best for hiding) to choc-based baked goods. You can add pureed spinach or black beans to brownies too. Don't pile it in - start small and work your way up. Carob powder has a decent protein and fibre content.

Try recipes for ready brek pancakes, if she will eat something like that.

Does your DD eat any seeds or nuts? Pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, almonds, hazelnuts...

If she swims, she definitely needs more food. She needs whole grains and protein - whole grain bagel with peanut butter is a filling protein, also tuna salad with croutons for carb. Does she like granola bars? Some have PB in them.

I am wondering if you have ever considered whether she has a parasite problem? I remember someone my DD2 knew being always hungry, and when her parents eventually took her to the doctor, it was found she had a tapeworm.

How are you getting on OP? This thread bothered me, and not much SN does these days (becoming more and more unaffected these days after years of MN)

Have the posts and suggestions helped? Have you made a list of people to contact / email?

She was with a relative yesterday whose vegetarian, did a veggie lasagne, apparently she had a really small portion (from what I've seen it was even smaller than she'd have a school) and then she bought another portion back with her.

She refused food at 5.30 saying she wasn't hungry. I offered toast when she said she was hungry at 7pm. She then had an awful nights sleeps. Woke every hour. Then started the day at 4.30am.

I go to bed early because I don't sleep well myself, I sleep in blocks of 2 hours due to insomnia so I go 8-10pm then awake until midnight, sleep midnight to 2amish, then up until 4am. I might as well get up if she's going to be up at 5am anyway. GP won't give me sleeping tablets while I have sole charge of a child under 10, so my sleep pattern is staying like that.

She's with relative today again so I'll update on her eating today. Apparently relative is going to let her choose again. It's a roast dinner today.

She's back at holiday club tomorrow and I can finally get in touch with the GP.

That sounds awful. Have you spoken with a Gp about your insomnia? You can get a referral to the sleep clinic for yourself (and I presume your dd but may be a different protocol for paediatrics) with those symptoms. You may, for example have sleep apnoea. Your dd may be copying you as at this age she’s probably more aware you’re awake during the night.

I hope you get some help OP. It's sounding a bit like she's possibly veering into the territory of disordered eating now rather than just deliberately eating a bit less to stay up doesn't it. Hopefully the GP has some great ideas and some quick intervention nips this in the bud

Give her foods that help to increase melatonin (sleep hormone).
Pineapple, banannas, Turkey, milk

Google melatonin foods...

Hi OP, so sorry to hear about your own sleep difficulties, it sounds an immensely hard combination to be juggling.

Have you ever tried taking Phenergan for your sleep to see if that helps? It's an old school antihistamine.

I've had various sleep difficulties myself over the years linked to anxiety (and possible autism myself, I now realise), and nothing the GP prescribed helped me, yet Phenergan did. Interestingly one of my (autistic) children is also prescribed this in combination with Melatonin, and it has solved my child's sleep difficulties. I have always been able to wake up when my children need me when I've taken Phenergan, but then to quickly re-enter sleep rather than staying wide awake for long periods as I would without it.