Child deliberately not eating enough to stay up later

[Helpmetosleepplease]

DD is 6, she hates going to bed and will do everything to get out of it. I’ve learnt to ignore her and put her to bed, she does eventually sleep.

She’s now realised if she doesn’t eat enough at 5pm she’s too hungry to sleep. I’ve tried ignoring it but she wakes up 2, 3, 4 times in the night screaming she’s hungry which means I get even less sleep.

So she’s now having a substantial snack at 7pm (bed time is 7.30pm – snack has to be toast or a crumpet and a piece of fruit and sometimes she’s still hungry and wants a bowl of cereal (dry)) but she’s then too hyped up to sleep so ends up playing (with no toys just her own voice) until 9 or 10pm at night.

I can’t sleep until she goes to sleep (anxiety related) so that’s meaning I’m not getting enough sleep.

Earlier bedtime doesn’t help, not giving the snack means she wakes up, giving a smaller snack means she still hasn’t eaten enough so wakes up in the night, just milk doesn’t help because she doesn’t really like it so will take a few sips and then say she doesn’t want anymore, she also doesn’t like water or squash – she’d live off fruit juice if allowed but the dentist has said it’s really bad for her.

I suspect she has ASD although no-one agrees so I’m struggling to get anyone to get a diagnosis for her. She is diagnosed with Hypermobility and has an eye problem as well.

Any suggestions? I can’t go on like this. I need to sleep.

@Theyellowflamingo

OP she really does sound neurodiverse, in which case all the “they’ll eat/drink eventually”, “give them the same meal back” stuff won’t work. My child would starve before they ate something they felt anxious about or that was the wrong texture - I don’t mean for a few hours, I mean for days and days. They would drink absolutely nothing if water was not available (we are incredibly lucky that water is what they have landed on as their only liquid). Part of the sensory issues from their ASD is they don’t feel thirst the way a typical person might, their whole sense of how their body feels is out of kilter.

As part of her assessments etc have you ever asked for a referral to a dietician?

@Theyellowflamingo I can't get any assessments for her, school won't refer her as they don't think she's got ASD or ADHD or anything, GP also wouldn't. I can't afford private and ExH won't help with the costs so until someone realises it we can't get a referral.

The lack of fluids is a concern. Is she constipated? Have you thought about consulting a dietician?

If she's not drinking and is eating a lot of stodge I'd imagine she could be terribly constipated which could account for any tummy pain she's complaining of.

That's an extraordinary amount of bananas for one small person.

I was a child who wouldn't drink so I understand what you're up against but I'd be trying anything to build in some drinking habits (rewards for drinking a glass of water or milk in the morning and evening for example).

@Helpmetosleepplease okay well then don't you think it's time to see a dietician if you can't get your child to drink? She's going to end up very poorly. And stop letting her eat bananas to her heart's content. Her diet consists of mostly sugar and carbs as it is. She's probably getting blood sugar crashes all the time.

If your child is fussy about food then I definitely wouldn’t count what gets eaten at school as her main meal.
My experience of watching kids her age eat school dinners is that even the best eaters will throw at least half of what they’re given away.
I don’t know what else to advise but I’d definitely be feeding her a ‘proper’ meal for her tea.

You can refer yourself for a lot of things. My son is 18 now so it was a while ago but I definitely self referred for physiotherapy and speech therapy (ST could help with chewing and drinking different textures).

I also applied for an EHCP as school were spectacularly unhelpful and chose SEND schools when the time was right (not suggesting you’ll need to do that).

In the New Year, I’d email or ring charities you think will be most helpful e.g for autism or perhaps Cerebra.

It’s amazing what you can do for yourself - it’s just that no one tells you!!

(I have no idea if you can self refer to a dietician).

how is it bad advice??

Because forcing/pressuring a child to eat a meal they did not want is not an acceptable way to deal with the situation, it creates negative associations with eating (especially that particular food), and it creates anxiety which is going to make food issues worse. No dietician would recommend it, DS dietician actively advises against it.

If you didn't eat your tea then we're hungry later but your DH told you to eat the tea you didn't want and it's that or nothing, you'd tell him where to shove it because you would stand for being treated like that. Its not acceptable to do it to an adult, why do it to a child?

She's eating nothing but carbohydrates really.

No wonder she's hungry and tiny.

She needs calcium and protein plus fruit and veg, plus carbohydrates.

This means:
Meat
Fish
Beans
Cheese/ yogurt/ milk

Veg and fruit
Rice, pasta, couscous, bread, cereal

How tall are you and her dad? As she is quite short, if that’s not consistent with your families, I wonder if that’s the route you could use to get referred to a dietitian (who might be able to help with the more limited food/ drink preferences).

Meant to say - I’ve never gone private for any of the things I’ve needed for my son. I’d pop over to the SEND board on Mumsnet also.

If she will drink fruit juice I would let her have as much as she wants and just very gradually water it down and be careful with tooth brushing

Just to echo that school meals are small (think prison style moulded trays, spoonful of everything etc). Give her a proper tea - pie n (ready) mash, lasagne, pasta, fajitas, nuggets chips n peas... all quick and easy. Jelly or yoghurt for pud.

Thank you all will definitely look at dietician referral.

She does eat quorn and meat subsitutes but not sure how good they are for protein? I don't tend buy them but will look into it if they're good for that.

I can't get any assessments for her, school won't refer her as they don't think she's got ASD or ADHD or anything, GP also wouldn't. I can't afford private and ExH won't help with the costs so until someone realises it we can't get a referral

You can self-refer to the school nursing team for your area, they'll be able to assess her, offer advice in the meantime, and then make referrals to the appropriate departments (e.g., CAMHS, dietician, etc).

If you want to expand her diet don't just suddenly cut out foods you know she will eat, such as bananas. Every meal you offer should have 1-2 of her "safe" foods on it so that st every meal there is always something for her to eat.

Fresh fruit juice? Try diluting it with water. Mine never knew when I did

@mathanxiety

She's eating nothing but carbohydrates really.

No wonder she's hungry and tiny.

She needs calcium and protein plus fruit and veg, plus carbohydrates.

This means:
Meat
Fish
Beans
Cheese/ yogurt/ milk

Veg and fruit
Rice, pasta, couscous, bread, cereal

She won't eat meat, she occasionally eats chicken but thats it she won't try sausages or pork chops or spaghetti bolognese or cottage pie or anything like that.

She won't try fish at all, even fish fingers.

She likes beans but not all the time.

She won't eat cheese cubes or drink milk, she can be hit and miss with sauces. She does like yogurt but only the sugary ones, she won't eat just plain yogurt.

Loves most fruit but isn't keen on a lot of veg - she'll eat peas and brocolli but not much else veg wise.

She likes pasta.

Hates rice, says it tastes of mud. Same with couscous.

She only eats white bread.

She likes cornflakes or wheetabix but won't eat many other cereals, and she has them dry as she doesn't like milk.

@Hospedia

If you want to expand her diet don't just suddenly cut out foods you know she will eat, such as bananas. Every meal you offer should have 1-2 of her "safe" foods on it so that st every meal there is always something for her to eat.

@Hospedia if there's a food on her plate she doesn't like or doesn't want to try she rejects the whole meal, even if the foods aren't touching so its very hard to expand her diet.

@Booklover3

Fresh fruit juice? Try diluting it with water. Mine never knew when I did

Will try that thank you

I think the bananas can be a problem as they may raise the potassium levels in the blood. Certainly my father-in-law had problems of that kind after getting in the habit of eating two a day - I imagine that a young child might be more susceptible.

A bowl of porridge and a banana before bed.

Tbh I think it's probably just a phase which she will outgrow and you just need to try your best to go with it

Why do you think she wants to stay up?

Does she like avocado or any nut butters?

Instead of milk week she try a milk substitute - nut milk, oat milk, coconut milk?

Pulses are a good source of protein also.

Can you still get protein enriched Weetabix?

If she doesn't accept non safe foods on the same plate can you put them on a different plate of bowl?

Will she suck on an ice cube? Lick an ice lolly if you need to get fluids into her

Kids will often eat something they wouldn't ordinarily do with parental example or where they've helped to make it? Distraction with tv sometimes helps but it's a bad habit to get into when you could be chatting about her day.

I would move her main evening meal later and eat with her.
Will she eat a whole meal wrap? Slices of chicken with some cucumber perhaps?