Ds (9) unhappy with his stocking - made me cry Christmas morning.

[cleocleo81]

I thought he might be but it was too late to do anything about it. I was really stuck for ideas as he didn't really have a Christmas list and I went shopping again late to get some more things.

He only liked a couple of items. The rest he turned his nose up at, i don't like that etc. Unfortunately although dd had the same number of presents hers were bigger so his stocking was half full in comparison. He was then quiet and stroppy. Saying his Ds had more as she was still unwrapping hers- they had the same amount but hers were bigger. The final price was a lot and I was trying to cut back. When I asked him what he didn't get that he would have liked he couldn't answer.

He's pretty ungrateful in general though and I am now worried about his under the tree presents as I think he will be the same. I try so hard in every day life to make him happy, to do nice things for him. He's never happy, nothing we do is good enough. His party wasn't in the right place and was too short, Harry Potter world was boring, his birthday cake was chocolate and he doesn't like chocolate cake, his birthday was boring as we only went to the cinema and I worked in the pm. Despite asking what he wanted to do and he said cinema. he always have a negative.

This morning I had to leave the room and he caught me crying. He's said sorry and come to see me twice so I think he knows he's upset me. I am just tired of his attitude. Everything is what he didn't get not what he has.

Hi op..mu 8 yesr old has asd and this is similar. She cried when she could have what she wanted fir lunch. She cried and was hyperventilating because she thought she had less presents than her brother. I can see people think she is spoilt but ita not that at all. She is incredibly anxious and easily stressed out and needs to know exactly how things will turn out. She also can't not say what she is feeling

Hi @cleocleo81

Two quick things before I head off to watch Die Hard.

Firstly, I just wanted to say that it’s important to acknowledge your own feelings. You were disappointed and upset by your DS behaviour. You should feel like you have permission to feel those feelings.

Secondly, I would highly encourage anyone to have a bit of CBT if they can access it. It really highlights the link between feelings, thoughts and behaviours. It helps to untangle some of the mess of emotions and circles of actions that we all find ourselves in. I really think it would help you, and it might help your relationship with your DS.

Sending good thoughts. Merry Christmas OP

OP I feel very similar to you. Reading your post makes me worry for the future with my own DS.

We’ve had possibly the worst Christmas Day we’ve ever had, for me, and it’s all been because of DS, age 6. He has been really rude, grumpy and ungrateful. A few things have been understandable - I don’t think he got the main present he’d wanted, because it was impossible to find and we had managed these expectations - and one thing he was excited about (a Transformer toy) no one could work out how to transform it all day. But like your DS he hadn’t asked for much, and it’s very hard then to know what to get.

DS actually said to me this morning “I hate Christmas” and “this is the worst Christmas ever” and I had to stop myself from crying.

My DS finds a lot of things difficult and I’m certain he’s ND, but it’s hard to pinpoint what the issues are.

I feel so sorry for this little boy. His sister is the golden “lovely, lovely” child and he is the irritating and unlikeable one. Of course his behaviour is challenging. In that atmosphere anyone’s would be. And he may have ADHD as well. He isn’t giving you a hard time. He’s having a hard time. Now he’s being blamed for not showing gratitude when he has actually just expressed the reality of his life: his sister is the favoured one and he will never have what she has. Maybe the Xmas presents were very nice. But he is expressing a deeper sense of lack of connection, lack of a close relationship with his parents. It’s heartbreaking to be honest.

Yet another disgraceful thread where a little boy - currently being assessed for additional needs - is called names by grown women on here with nothing better to do

And an OP who admits she's closer to his sister and treats them slightly differently - and he's spotted this

My nine year old is very similar and is currently under assessment for Autism.

She gets very stressed around birthdays and Christmas, she puts so much pressure on it that it needs to be perfect. She too didn’t like half her presents and got jealous about her younger brothers toys and tried to take one off him. She then had a bit of a strop and started a pile of stuff to send back or exchange.

It’s heartbreaking as a parent but I also know how stressed she felt about Christmas and how much anxiety she has around occasions so try not to take it to heart.

@SaltySeaBird

My nine year old is very similar and is currently under assessment for Autism.

She gets very stressed around birthdays and Christmas, she puts so much pressure on it that it needs to be perfect. She too didn’t like half her presents and got jealous about her younger brothers toys and tried to take one off him. She then had a bit of a strop and started a pile of stuff to send back or exchange.

It’s heartbreaking as a parent but I also know how stressed she felt about Christmas and how much anxiety she has around occasions so try not to take it to heart.

My dd is on the spectrum, she’s not keen on surprises so when she was 9/10 I would just take her to smyths and let her chose her presents so she knew what she was getting. This year (she’s almost 16) is the first year she hasn’t really chosen what she wanted, just asked for Lego and she has coped better with having a few surprises. She’s never complained about any gift, just doesn’t play with some of them.

*YoungBritishPissArtist
Your update reveals a lot more. Do you think he is picking up on you favouring his sister?
Yes, I agree. He is only nine and already feels insecure. You say yourself that you favour his sister. Kids are very sensitive to this.

Even without this backstory, at this age I'd always make sure the stockings appeared equally filled, even if that means bulking it out with extra chocolate or something. The visual difference sounds stark and he will have seen it as proof that he's lesser. That's why he's unhappy, not because he's a brat or whatever horrible terms pp used.

And I'm going to go against the grain and say I don't think it's a good thing he saw you get upset. I know that's a big thing on MN, but he's nine and isn't responsible for adults' emotions.

Not trying to be harsh, but wanted to give a different perspective from the general tone of the thread, which seems to be that this little boy is an ungrateful brat who deserves nothing.*

I totally agree. I think you're closer to your daughter and your son picks up on this. You'd said yourself you knew his sticking wasn't as good as his sister's. Her stocking looked bigger.

Can I ask if you also found it easier to buy gifts for your daughter? So there were lost of gifts of things she wanted? Whereas there were fewer items that your son wanted?

I am sorry but it really sounds like favouritism and that your son has sadly picked up on it.

To avoid jealousy at this time of year, I make sure that my kids have an equal number of gifts, and of a similar theme. So both get a book, both get PJs, both get bubble bath, both get chocolates, both get a toy/game that they like....both get a main gift of equal/similar calibre (often the same item). I think it's unfair to do otherwise and doesn't teach children to be grateful, just teaches resentment.

Gratefulness can be taught in other ways (like when grandma sends pants/vests as a gifts, or a t-shirt that's too small or books that are too babyish. You remind them that it's the thought the counts.

@Newjobnewstart

I was in the exact same position thus morning took myself to the kitchen for a wee cry. I feel as if I ruined Christmas, got her a new iPhone but no airpods didn't even think of them. Am sure loads are having the same issue today.

...so that IS ungrateful...

Have no advice OP but just wanted to say you sound like you are throwing your heart and soul into understanding and caring for your children and that's amazing

Just keep relationship in mind at all times and you won't go too far wrong. V interesting, and brilliant, to hear of the pp's experience of therapy for her, play therapy for her child etc. So important not to see a diagnosis as be all and end all. Healing is necessary and possible. His symptoms maybe be adhd like or they may be symptoms of his environment, either way, no matter what his behaviour, he needs to rest in your love as well as leadership. Unconditional love and nothing less is so important for him. Dopamine drips of love and connection will help. Keep posting op if helpful.

I'm so sorry that this is ongoing and upsetting hard work. I've been mulling over some of the examples you gave, not just the stocking one, and may be about to go off on a tangent. It makes some sense to me, so if I don't express this that well, I apologise.

I have ADHD and dyspraxia. I was diagnosed as an adult. I have coping strategies for most things, that get you to 'functioning', but the rejection sensitivity is a nightmare and I have no clue as to how to get a handle on that and it doesn't improve a lot. It has ruined a lot of things for me where relationships are key - very often jobs.

Most recently, I left a job (WFH) where I was doing well but was consistently left out of a lot of group zoom meetings, including social ones. These were set on a day I didn't work and at the time I would be picking up from school and away for a good 40 minutes. Sometimes birthday treats would be sent through the post ahead of these meetings as a reward. Mine had something like 'Think of us when you eat these' written on the label. All other team members were invited to the social stuff, even if they sometimes couldn't make it. I would have been ok to attend a few apart from the school pick up. I did ask several times whether a few of the times could be moved - apparently yes, but this never happened (over about 10 months).

I would MUCH rather not have had the cakes - the message alone said 'You won't be with us'. I thought that a change of time was a pretty easy thing, no big deal, I asked for it, but there was no-one else invested enough to make it happen. But then it was as if every little accidental thing confirmed that I was being pushed out, it became a hair trigger. I didn't have to look hard for these, but I was approaching from an already very hurt, wounded and blinkered place. It overwhelmed in my head every other more neutral or nice interaction. I couldn't rationalise it down to size.

I suspect something like this is where your DS might be as regards his perception of him vs his sister. Can you meet him halfway or more? Can you be honest with him in advance of (say) a trip out or birthday and involve him in what he wants, with a bit of discussion on how things are usually somewhere in the middle of the best possible experience and the worst? How it is quite difficult to see things truly the same as someone else, and you can hurt people when you don't intend to. I agree too on having lots of different ways of modelling reactions and emotions, cartoons, pictures, talking etc as well as books.

"he didn't put all those expectations on Xmas himself. He was promised by teachers, TV etc that he would get his heart's desire."

WTF? Blaming teachers for this?
FML.

This sounds difficult for all of you OP. I hope you are able to have your son assessed and supported soon, if it turns out he needs it.

FWIW I work therapeutically with neurodivergent teens. Older than your lad, but I wonder if this pattern is also a thing for him. Some kids pick up on the idea that they are naughty/bad/awkward/a pain and that can become so entrenched in them that they find it hard to accept anything good, whether it’s praise, presents, anything positive happening for them. It jars with their self concept and the instinct is to reject it, which further bolsters the “I’m difficult/bad/awkward” narrative - even though it’s negative, to a degree it’s safe and familiar. Being praised, rewarded or given something can actually induce anxiety because it then comes with the idea of possibly not living up to or deserving the praise or positive thing - there can be a lot of fear of failure there. This can be the root of self sabotage in ADHD adults as well (I am one and I know this well!)

The way I work with this (and encourage parents to as well) is to try to reframe black and white thinking “I’m either good or bad” and model healthy responses to mistakes and dysregulation. Emotional dysregulation is massive for kids with ADHD - they can become quickly overwhelmed by feelings. So if a kid was to say “I’m naughty” I’d ask them what’s happened today that made them feel like that. Say it was that they were rude to their teacher, and I’d say “ok so what you mean is, you made a mistake today. You were feeling frustrated because you didn’t want to do what the teacher said and you said something rude and got in trouble. I wonder how we could help you handle your feelings differently next time? What do you think?”

For a child your son’s age, the book “2,4,6,8 this is how we regulate” has some good play therapy derived emotional regulation exercises, a lot of them are quite fun and you could do them together.

My youngest is 8, and had a complete jealousy based meltdown yesterday. His 16 yo sibling got a gift that the 8 yo wanted for themselves.

Except expensive electronics in the hands of the 8 yo would be killed off by the new year. Uh, nope.

So, we had a talk about things, including that it can be very hard to manage big feelings when you've not slept the night before. He apologized to his brother, and had a nap. Things improved dramatically after that.

@lessthanathirdofanacre

I feel so sorry for this little boy. His sister is the golden “lovely, lovely” child and he is the irritating and unlikeable one. Of course his behaviour is challenging. In that atmosphere anyone’s would be. And he may have ADHD as well. He isn’t giving you a hard time. He’s having a hard time. Now he’s being blamed for not showing gratitude when he has actually just expressed the reality of his life: his sister is the favoured one and he will never have what she has. Maybe the Xmas presents were very nice. But he is expressing a deeper sense of lack of connection, lack of a close relationship with his parents. It’s heartbreaking to be honest.

Not strictly true. He has a wonderful relationship with DH and he is closest to him and I am closest to dd. I think that's probably pretty common in families.

She is not favoured in that way at all, we try and give them the same when they need it in terms of gifts, time and love. If anything we probably over compensate for Ds in terms of lots of things are about him. He gets days out for his birthday, and we do lots of sporting activities for him. In this respect it's all about him.

In terms of treating differently dd probably does get more praise because she naturally does more to get praise but we actively try and give Ds praise when needed. It was more with discipline and doing things differently that way.

Goodness this is
Not ok behaviour at all! You need to
Nip it in the bud straight away. He should be taught really that he should be grateful for any bloody present at Xmas whether he likes it or not as many many kids don’t get anything or not a lot and you have done your best. Next year if he doesn’t want to be disappointed then he needs to write a list. My 12 year olds pile was smaller than his youngers sister but like you spent the same. He came in the room and said “oh wow mum I wasn’t expecting that many presents.”

@Fcuk38

Goodness this is Not ok behaviour at all! You need to Nip it in the bud straight away. He should be taught really that he should be grateful for any bloody present at Xmas whether he likes it or not as many many kids don’t get anything or not a lot and you have done your best. Next year if he doesn’t want to be disappointed then he needs to write a list. My 12 year olds pile was smaller than his youngers sister but like you spent the same. He came in the room and said “oh wow mum I wasn’t expecting that many presents.”

How do you suggest we nip it in the bud? Some children don't respond to consequences or no matter how many times you pull him up on this. We pull him up on this behaviour every time but it makes no difference. I have told him I won't be organising him an expensive and time consuming party next year or doing a trip out for his birthday as he is not grateful. I have talked to him a lot of times about attitude and how it makes people feel when he seems ungrateful. It goes completely over his head.

Hey OP. Hope you are feeling a little better. You say you give DS praise ^^‘when needed’.

What does that mean for you?

I think MrsCBY has a very insightful post above.

Please don't refuse to give your DS a nice birthday next year to punish him for his attitude now. A very wise woman once said that in raising children you need to "keep short accounts." She meant that you deal with any difficult behaviour as it happens, but that you then draw a line under it.

This same woman had several adopted children. She once told a story about taking one of them on a wonderful day out. Everyone had an amazing day. When they returned home the child threw a tantrum, shouting that she had had a terrible time. It would have been easy to view her as an ungrateful child who should be punished. But my friend understood what was beneath the tantrum. This little girl was so used to seeing herself as unworthy of love and care that she couldn't process the emotions she was feeling. My friend said quietly, "It's O.K. to have a good time. It's O.K. to be happy." And that opened the floodgates. The child dissolved in tears and the tantrum stopped in its tracks.

Of course, your son has had a much better start in life than that little girl who experienced neglect and worse in her early years. But please don't underestimate how much a parent's favouritism toward a sibling can affect a young child. He's well aware that you like his sister better and that you view him as irritating and unlikeable. Even if you try to treat them fairly, you clearly view them so differently. He has already internalised a sense of himself as not good enough. That is crushing for a child.

You really can turn this around, but it will take real effort. And reframing the way you interact with him is crucial. I would recommend some professional help for you to assist in that process.

He will not be punished by having a bad birthday next year. He will still have a lovely birthday party but it will be more basic with a few friends rather than me going out my way to do something which he isn't grateful for. It will still be special. That will be it though, no expensive day out to go with it which we have always done.

Yes- one reason I want him to have an assessment is so DH and I can learn how best to support him emotionally. We are finding it so difficult to know what to do for the best. He seems like such an unhappy little boy at times I worry he will be damaged. We aren't perfect, we have made mistakes but we are trying.

Yes- I think I definitely need to think harder about his behaviour and actions and why they are happening. I admit when he was younger I just thought he was playing up and firm boundaries/discipline was the answer. Now I know this wasn't correct, I need to look into the reasons and address them better.

Yes- I think a lot of it is about his self worth and any attention, even negative is attention. He is very demanding.

He is looking for connection, not attention, try to reframe it. Try to show you adore him and make that time for just the two of you where you delight in him. Firm boundaries are important, with the soft padding of empathy and kindness, showing him clearly that no matter what he does, you love who he is. All of this will buikd happiness and esteem. I would play down his negativity, don't give it much airtime bar an acknowledgement that he's not happy about something. It's hard but telling yourself all feelings are OK and accepted might help. Diagnosis can be helpful but it rarely looks at cause or what's behind the behaviours so it's great you've your eyes open to that. Think of helping him rather than disciplining him or stopping behaviours. Lots of reframing needed I think. Best of luck.

Do you spend time with him one to one? Try to get to know him and connect with him.

@Malibuismysecrethome

Do you spend time with him one to one? Try to get to know him and connect with him.

I could definitely spend more. We don't have that much time 1-1 no. It's no excuse but it's tricky, I work part-time and I am doing a masters, things are incredibly busy at the moment. DH works full time in a very demanding job so it's very hard to get 1-1 time with him around our commitments and Ds school/sports etc. His sister is usually there. Its definitely something I can do, he tends to want time 1-1 with DH if he gets the choice. That will be my new year resolution, although I think he might be quite anti it if I asked.

Unfortunately we do tend to fall out when we spend 1-1 time together. We could fall out before we get to the end of the road. He's very argumentative, the kind of child who says the opposite because he can, likes arguing and continues to do something when you have told him several times to stop. He doesn't listen to reason and argues, his point of view about what happened in a situation is the complete opposite to mine or DH. 1-1 time doesn't necessarily mean he's well behaved and appreciative and we have happy times.